tdewey's JG auctions set new records!
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:40 pm 
 

tdewey10 wrote:Just look at the subweb photos/descriptions.  Or am I misunderstanding the question?


I've just glanced a few of the subweb pages, & I don't see anything about it. I'm referring to the brand-new printings that started to appear in the late 90s. I bought a few from a revived-JG website back then , but these days every collectibles dealer has them spades: tons of brand-new, often shinkwrapped JG items which are obviously not 25+ years old, yet are unaltered reprints of the old stuff.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:09 am 
 

Was this just a noob phenomenon or are we starting to see Judges Guild making its mark as a collectible?
and
I don't want to be seen as "Mr. Negativity" but IMHO, some of these prices seem to be an aberration.  Specifically with the Wilderlands and the Revised City State.
tdewey certainly earned some respectable prices, but I don't think they all were unreasonably high.  2nd Print Revised City State was the biggest surprise to me.  Pegasus 2 is hard to come by.  I paid more than $30 to replace my ruined original copy of Pegasus 1.  It appears that all of tdewey's items are in very good shape.  That certainly boosts the value for collectors looking to upgrade their items.  I would pay more for a nice copy and hope to recoup some of that cost by selling the lesser copy I am replacing.  No disrespect intended, but I am cynical about the 1st Print Wilderlands of the Fantastic Reaches.  I suspect that this item is a mismatch of components rather than some unknown printing or edition.  Given JGs propensity for screw ups an lack of business acumen, I think this item came about by happenstance.

Do you guys believe the bid is out of line?  Be honest.  I do not know.  I've seen this mod go in the 40's.
As noted Wraith Overlord doesn't come up very often.  I always bid on them hoping to pick up second copy at reasonably cheap price (one to play with, one to collect).  Shane lists this item as coming with a City State Campaign Map (at least some of them).  My copy acquired in shrink wrap did not and I have never seen one that did.  It does not appear the copy in this auction did.  If it had $54 would have been a "no brainer".  By the way when you get to the dungeon maps below the temples and start pulling your hair out because they don't match up, drop me a line.  I have a theory and I have figured out how to make them all match up.

Every Tegel auction I have seen lately has the same four or five Acaeum members bidding the price up along with a handful of non-Acaeum members in the mix.
I am among those members.  I can tell you that I am not trying to drive prices up.  I am an earnest collector that wants to own a copy of every printing of every item.  As a JG Valuation Board member, I can tell you that there has been discussion over the ethics of board member participation in auctions and determining values.  We are conscious of our responsibility.

On a lighter note, you will have to explain to me what a "shrew encounter" and "shrew fest" means.

If this goes for more than $10...I will shoot someone...with a potato bazooka....I swear.
Take aim.   :P   I'm bidding on it and prepared to do it.  I have the first and second printings and want the third to finish off this part of my collection.

@ tdewey10 - if you don't mind my asking, are you selling off your entire collection or just duplicate items?  You have some items in pretty good shape if your just selling duplicates.  If your selling off everything what's your motivation?  If I'm being to nosy, just say so.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:24 am 
 

[B]ut these days every collectibles dealer has them spades: tons of brand-new, often shinkwrapped JG items which are obviously not 25+ years old, yet are unaltered reprints of the old stuff.
You are mistaken.  They are all originals, not reprints.  There may have been several printings of any given item released, where often the only difference is the product list at the back of the book.  JG printed tons of copies of many items before they went out of business.  This stock was stored in warehouses and was eventually sold and resold.  A few cases here and a few cases there.  A few Like Tony Zilz and Terry "Fencert" bought up old stock by the pallet load.  The items you are seeing are assuredly shrink wrap items stored for many years.  JG was the cat's meow back in the day, but fell into disfavor as newer editions of D&D came along.  It could not compete with the color and gloss of the new publishers.  In recent years people are rediscovering the brilliance of JG and it is experiencing something of a revival.  That is bringing a lot of old stock back to the market.  If you are interested you will spend some more time reading this site.  You will find many of the answers to your questions.  The old JG hands will certainly help clear things up for you if you still have questions.  Welcome aboard the JG band wagon.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:43 am 
 

leadjunkie wrote:Take aim.   :P   I'm bidding on it and prepared to do it.  I have the first and second printings and want the third to finish off this part of my collection.

@ tdewey10 - if you don't mind my asking, are you selling off your entire collection or just duplicate items?  You have some items in pretty good shape if your just selling duplicates.  If your selling off everything what's your motivation?  If I'm being to nosy, just say so.


Selling off my collection.  I had a number of duplicates of some items.  Selling off to pay a tax bill.  

As to the Fantastic Wilderlands -- no offense taken but I'm roughly 99.99% sure you're dead wrong.   I got the Wilderlands, with a bunch of other JG stuff including a 2nd print Tegel, Issues I,J,K,L and varoius other Wilderlands from the Mike Richter auction back in 97-98 or so on r.g.b.m.  His stuff was in very good shape with reasonable provence.  The fact that the the cover page didn't have a booty list on the back is sufficient in itself to suggest that it is different from the run of the mill 2nd edition.  It is entirely possible that the edition is more common than I suspect it is -- but I doubt it or Plaag would have seen it before on ebay or etc.  

I further note that the release that I just sold is the _only_ version of the Wilderlands sold to date that actually explain the mysterious Wilderlands cover which, as we all know, lists "Two 16  page Booklets" for the 2d and 3d edition -- despite the fact that they have 1 32 page booklets.   In other words, if you're going to claim that it isn't what it seems to be you'll need a hell of a lot better evidence than just a cynical feeling.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:50 am 
 

On the subject of Wilderlands of the Fantastic Reaches, I will note the 'no product list' cover sheet and two books as it is an oddity. If it never appears again then its still there, if it appears in the same format or a different one then we can further discuss it.
Printing errors have happened with Judges Guild stuff before, I have the #150 cover sheet that has no black ink on the front yet has a list on back. Only common error so far is the 1st print Book of Treasure Maps with the right side cut wrong.

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 10:10 am 
 

tdewey10 wrote:   In other words, if you're going to claim that it isn't what it seems to be you'll need a hell of a lot better evidence than just a cynical feeling.


All due respect, but there is nothing that you have that indicates anything other than a seller who indavertantly included a cover sheet with a printing error together in a sale with a 1st print set of books or in other words just because you have a "good feeling" about it doesn't make it any more so.  I know its probably hard to imagine that the seller you bought this from had more than one copy, because that never happens. Right Shane? :wink:


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 11:52 am 
 

- In other words, if you're going to claim that it isn't what it seems to be you'll need a hell of a lot better evidence than just a cynical feeling.[/quote]
same reply as tegel??

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:10 pm 
 

leadjunkie wrote:You are mistaken.  They are all originals, not reprints.  .. The items you are seeing are assuredly shrink wrap items stored for many years.


Then what about:

http://www.judgesguild.net/about/jgfaq.shtml
Are you going to be reprinting my favorite old product?
The Revised City State of the Invincible Overlord was released in 1999.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judges_Guild
Judges Guild returned in 1999, selling reprints of its old material over the Web.

http://asta-www.informatik.uni-hamburg. ... index.html
A note on Judges Guild reprints: Zocchi Dist. reprinted a handful of Judges Guild modules. These reprints are nothing but photocopies of the original books, and are practically worthless to a collector, but a good buy when you merely want to use these for playing. Among the reprinted titles are: Escape from Astigar's Lair, Inferno, Of Skulls and Scrapfaggot Green and Tegel Manor. Other titles may exist, so buyer beware!

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Lou%20Zocchi
Zocchi got into a bit of hot water in 2001 when it released a reprint of Judges Guild's Tegel Manor. Zocchi claims Judges Guild co-founder Bob Bledsaw authorized him to do a reprint but Bledsaw claims no such authorization was given and he was darn surprised when he saw a fresh reprint on a store shelf. It's unknown what the state of this disagreement is.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:39 pm 
 

sauromatian wrote:
Then what about:

http://www.judgesguild.net/about/jgfaq.shtml
Are you going to be reprinting my favorite old product?
The Revised City State of the Invincible Overlord was released in 1999.



That would be refeing to the 7th printing, that was reprinted with a Blue cover in 1999:

http://www.acaeum.com/jg/Items0062,1999-62.html

http://www.acaeum.com/jg/ModPhotos/CSIORevised7th.html


sauromatian wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judges_Guild
Judges Guild returned in 1999, selling reprints of its old material over the Web.



This is also refering to the same item above.


sauromatian wrote:http://asta-www.informatik.uni-hamburg. ... index.html
A note on Judges Guild reprints: Zocchi Dist. reprinted a handful of Judges Guild modules. These reprints are nothing but photocopies of the original books, and are practically worthless to a collector, but a good buy when you merely want to use these for playing. Among the reprinted titles are: Escape from Astigar's Lair, Inferno, Of Skulls and Scrapfaggot Green and Tegel Manor. Other titles may exist, so buyer beware!


Your link is dead as Matthias' site has been down a few weeks now. see below for further details.

sauromatian wrote:http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=Lou%20Zocchi
Zocchi got into a bit of hot water in 2001 when it released a reprint of Judges Guild's Tegel Manor. Zocchi claims Judges Guild co-founder Bob Bledsaw authorized him to do a reprint but Bledsaw claims no such authorization was given and he was darn surprised when he saw a fresh reprint on a store shelf. It's unknown what the state of this disagreement is.


This is obvious that Zocchi was illegally making photocopies of said items and trying to sell them off as originals. That does not count as a printing.  The items that you see on Ebay(particularly those still in shrink), from Killjoy, Fencert, Taraumil, CrazyEgor, etc. are simply overstock that was never sold back in the day. These are entirely different and unrelated to the photocopying Zocci was doing(if that is in fact even true).  Aside from that Matthias' site was a nice reference point, however it was not 100% accurate in all cases.


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:29 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
This is obvious that Zocchi was illegally making photocopies of said items and trying to sell them off as originals. That does not count as a printing.  The items that you see on Ebay(particularly those still in shrink), from Killjoy, Fencert, Taraumil, CrazyEgor, etc. are simply overstock that was never sold back in the day. These are entirely different and unrelated to the photocopying Zocci was doing(if that is in fact even true).  Aside from that Matthias' site was a nice reference point, however it was not 100% accurate in all cases.


I can confirm the Zocchi reprints, particulary Inferno (which I still own) and Escape from Astigar's Lair.  The quality is awful....I've made better photocopies drunk and while on fire.  I have to dig out my copy, but I believe the photocopies are marked in some way across the cover or on the title page.  The ones I have owned are often put together badly also, and the edge don't line up exactly.  Reaching back into the dark ages, I don't believe these were marketed as anything but photocopies of the originals by Zocchi, although others later on may not have made that distinction.

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:45 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
I can confirm the Zocchi reprints, particulary Inferno (which I still own) and Escape from Astigar's Lair.  The quality is awful....I've made better photocopies drunk and while on fire.  I have to dig out my copy, but I believe the photocopies are marked in some way across the cover or on the title page.  The ones I have owned are often put together badly also, and the edge don't line up exactly.  Reaching back into the dark ages, I don't believe these were marketed as anything but photocopies of the originals by Zocchi, although others later on may not have made that distinction.

Mike B.


Mike if you can get me some scans that would be great..I'd love to know what was xeroxed.

sauromatian -- As for Zocchi: http://www.acaeum.com/jg/OtherCompanies ... anies.html
What is listed near the top is what he emailed me when I asked him about all of this.

I bought the revised CSIO 7th print from the old Judges Guild site, only that and Pegasus 14 ever came out in 1999, after that it was other companies (some of those listed on the page linked above) that have put out Judges Guild product.

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:50 pm 
 

Oh and the Way back machine is best to find the old site:
http://web.archive.org/web/199910081635 ... /index.htm And on that site they state they were selling original products (Wiki has the reprint bit wrong)
I have a file or two of information pulled from all of these that I've only read a bit of.

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:27 am 
 

There was an Ebay seller named "Ousmay" who was selling old JG first prints a few years ago.  He must have picked up a few pallets from a warehouse.  I got a set of the ready ref sheets in the original envelope from him.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:32 am 
 

ddt58 wrote:There was an Ebay seller named "Ousmay" who was selling old JG first prints a few years ago.  He must have picked up a few pallets from a warehouse.  I got a set of the ready ref sheets in the original envelope from him.


You talking with the cover sheet, or an actual envelope of Judges Guild (if the actual envelope I'd be interested in a scan/photo)

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:19 am 
 

There was an Ebay seller named "Ousmay" who was selling old JG first prints a few years ago.
He is the aforementioned Tony Zilz.  Yes, he bought an entire warehouse of unsold JG product.  When he ran out of steam he sold his remaining product to Terry of Renaissance Games known as Fencert on eBay.  Terry's reputation began to slide on eBay for burning to many people, myself included, and he has changed his eBay name.  It is now helenandterry.  He is looking to sell his remaining stock.  He offered it to me as I live near him.  He mostly has late printing modules and Dungeoneers/Journals left.  I'd love to get my hands on some of the installments in envelopes that he never lists on eBay or the box full of correspondence and business records that he has from JG.

Imagine how much stock would be on the market if JG's main warehouse had not burned down.


Last edited by leadjunkie on Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:23 pm 
 

I have an Installment W and may have bought it frm Ousmay years ago. It seems nigh on impossible to find complete installments any more - if you get his stock and have multiple copies..........  :)

  

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:57 pm 
 

if you get his stock
He wanted way to much IMHO for stock that is common or less desireable.  It would take for ever to sell on eBay, just to recoup the initial investment.  I'm sure that's why he is looking to sell it.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:07 pm 
 

I bought from both Ousmay and Tony. I believe I got the Ref sheets and some installments.


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:48 pm 
 

In other words, if you're going to claim that it isn't what it seems to be you'll need a hell of a lot better evidence than just a cynical feeling.
After Plaag's update to the Wilderlands of Fantastic Reaches entry I'm going to have to revise my opinion.  While the lack of a booty list on the reverse of the cover sheet can easily be explained away as a misprint, I had failed to notice the different color pants on the female rider.  That certainly makes a difference.  Very interesting.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:04 pm 
 

leadjunkie wrote:After Plaag's update to the Wilderlands of Fantastic Reaches entry I'm going to have to revise my opinion.  While the lack of a booty list on the reverse of the cover sheet can easily be explained away as a misprint, I had failed to notice the different color pants on the female rider.  That certainly makes a difference.  Very interesting.


The variant as well as 2nd print have the same cover sheet with white pants save one has no product list while the other does.
The 3rd print has the cover sheet with colored pants.

Side note: 1980 tends to have transparent-like aspects on some of its cover sheets. This, Castle Book II 1st, Spies of Lightelf 1st.

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