Help with DMG printing... 3rd Gamma or 2nd Beta?
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Post Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:56 pm 
 

I recently purchased a DMG on eBay and there are some conflicting elements that are making it hard for me to discern whether it's a 3rd Gamma or a 2nd Beta:

# The old endpapers are pasted over with the new endpapers. However the holes from the previous binding are NOT more readily visible as they are being utilized in their normal fashion (yes they are visible but similar to normal editions). There is also a loop of thread visible wrapping the bottom of the textblock across the gutter. there are also staples visible if you carefully peek into the binding

# Text on pages 98/99, 102/103, 106/107, and 110/111 are only negligibly slanted, if at all. However pages 69/70, 71/72, 73/74, 75/76 are in fact very angled as well as the top of the illustration on 193 being totally cut off at the top.

# The textblock is stapled AND the re-stitching is too far into the textblock. The gutter is small and non-existent throughout.  

# Also, a big weirdness thing; there seems to be two stocks of pager bound into the textblock. Pages 19-32, 65-96, 101-128, 177-208 and 225-232 appear to be a slightly thicker and off-white stock compared to the other pages which seem to be whiter and flimsier.

Any  thoughts?


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:07 am 
 

I'd venture to say 2nd Beta. The slanting happens on various prints of mine.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:34 am 
 

The irregular textblock was the main thing for me...

Is there any other feature I could use to differentiate?


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:24 pm 
 

TheMilford wrote:I recently purchased a DMG on eBay and there are some conflicting elements that are making it hard for me to discern whether it's a 3rd Gamma or a 2nd Beta:

2nd Beta.  So far, the Third printing (any version) as described has not been shown to exist.  We really need to update that page.

Found the old threads on the subject:

viewtopic.php?p=107144#107144
viewtopic.php?p=48632#48632

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:32 pm 
 

Oh, and pictures please...just in case you're the first.  Happens sometimes.

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:47 pm 
 

I'll try to post some tonight or tomorrow.


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:22 am 
 

Howdy,


deimos3428 wrote:2nd Beta.  So far, the Third printing (any version) as described has not been shown to exist.  We really need to update that page.


I thought several people, including me, had a 3rd gamma with the pasted over endpapers?


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:43 am 
 

The Collector's Trove wrote:Howdy,




I thought several people, including me, had a 3rd gamma with the pasted over endpapers?


Futures Bright,

Paul


According to Acaeum research BOTH the 2nd beta and 3rd Gamma have pasted end-papers.


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:56 am 
 

TheMilford wrote:
According to Acaeum research BOTH the 2nd beta and 3rd Gamma have pasted end-papers.


Oh, right, it's been so long since I've looked at it. The 3rd gamma should not have pasted over endpapers. I'm not sure how that got in there.

Since the 3rd gamma had it's cover replaced it may look exactly like a 3rd alpha.

I think the current 4th with white endpapers might be the 3rd gamma. The change to white endpapers signals some change.

Has anyone found a 4th with goldenrod colored endpapers?


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:41 pm 
 

The Collector's Trove wrote:Oh, right, it's been so long since I've looked at it. The 3rd gamma should not have pasted over endpapers. I'm not sure how that got in there.

Welcome back to the chaos that is DMG printings!

Has anyone found a 4th with goldenrod colored endpapers?

Well, we need to try to list the defining characteristics of the early printings, or we'll just get a whole lot of confusion as people mention their 2nd Betas, 5ths, etc.  Here's my checklist, with any non-defining characteristics omitted for clarity.

1st/2nd split: Wizard logo position.  In the 1st, it covers the blue-robed wizard's foot.  2nd and later prints it is higher up.

2nd/3rd split: TBD.

3rd/4th split: Endpaper color.  In the 1st-3rd they are yellow, the 4th is white.  The 5th is also yellow, so see next point in distinguishing 5ths from earlier printings.

4th/5th split:  ISBN.  The 1st - 4th it is absent.  It is present on the 5th (and later, see next point to distinguish from 6th).

5th/6th split:  "Revised" on copyright page.  The 1st-5th it is absent.  Present in the 6th (and later).

According to what we know for sure, both a 2nd and 3rd would be a book with:

  • the wizard logo above (not on) the blue-robed wizard's foot, with
  • yellow endpapers, and
  • no ISBN

Now, we know the 2nd Alpha has monster manual pages whereas the 2nd Beta has been rebound without those pages and has pasted-over endpapers, staples, and an angle on some pages.  

Those are all great ways of telling the 2nd variants apart, but not for distinguishing them from the supposed 3rds.  So what uniquely separates all the 2nds from all the 3rds?  I don't know.

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Post Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:52 pm 
 

That makes it somewhat more clear as to the specific differences.


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:55 pm 
 

Here's my 2nd Beta.

Image

One thing to consider about the 3rd-gamma debate. If they were discarding the damaged covers... there would be no reason to have double end papers. The textblock most likely were stripped and new flyleaves, endpapers and binding cloth was used to attach them to the new covers ... maybe these are the printings that received the white papers due to these extenuating circumstances.


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:27 am 
 

TheMilford wrote:One thing to consider about the 3rd-gamma debate. If they were discarding the damaged covers... there would be no reason to have double end papers. The textblock most likely were stripped and new flyleaves, endpapers and binding cloth was used to attach them to the new covers ... maybe these are the printings that received the white papers due to these extenuating circumstances.

Yup.  The thought last time we discussed this (has it really been more than three years?) was that perhaps the 4th was really a 3rd variant (Alpha or Gamma).  Paul had a great idea at that point. :D

Stormber wrote:Probably the only way to tell is to pull one apart and look for traces of goldenrod paper in the stitches (Volunteers?). Even then it might not be possible to identify that it had been recovered.


So I did exactly that, I ripped one apart.  That led to this very lively thread...
viewtopic.php?t=5592

...but unfortunately no more useful information.  In the end I only took one apart, not twenty, but I found no bits of yellow paper in the stitches.  (Though I did determine a previous owner had an orange short-haired cat.)

For review, here's some more really old threads on the subject.

viewtopic.php?t=1607
viewtopic.php?p=69026

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:56 am 
 

TheMilford wrote:Here's my 2nd Beta.

Funny, somehow I missed this until now.  In the phone the stitching on your 2nd Beta appears to go around the pages at the top (bottom?)  I don't think mine does, but I'll check when I get home.

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:30 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:Funny, somehow I missed this until now.  In the phone the stitching on your 2nd Beta appears to go around the pages at the top (bottom?)  I don't think mine does, but I'll check when I get home.


That is just a single loop of string... it's loose and could easily be cut (which I think they usually were for a normal print).

That is the bottom of the book. the top doesn't have it... but there is a little tail of a string up top.


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