dathon wrote:In other words, the reason these items are worth so much is because they are very, very rare. If you enable the masses to obtain cheaply any of these rares, even in a non-ideal format such as a PDF, then the originals will potentially decrease in value... especially for rares whose physicality wasn't too special besides being flimsy sheets of paper anyway (Tsojconth, Fazzlewood, Tamoachan, etc.). The reason why woodgrain boxes retain their value even though the book contents can be had much cheaper in a white box, is precisely because that woodgrain box cannot be put in a satisfactory PDF format. A PDF box just isn't the same... ditto for PotVQ's black folder.
dathon wrote:The availability of PDF OB3s means that the holders of shrinkwrap OB3s do not need to open the shrink to see what all the fuss is about. They can simply view the PDF to see the "objectionable" art, therefore the PDF prevents shrinkwrap OB3s from being opened. Also PDFs can decrease the value of the rares as collectibles since they ruin the mystique of rarity. If the only way to see what was in an OB3 was to own a physical copy then a lot of people would be really curious to see what the fuss was about, and that would potentially drive prices higher, if only by increasing the mystique of its forbidden nature. Since anyone can freely view an OB3's contents then OB3s lose their mystique value, and hence their value as a collectible will be affected. In other words, the reason these items are worth so much is because they are very, very rare. If you enable the masses to obtain cheaply any of these rares, even in a non-ideal format such as a PDF, then the originals will potentially decrease in value... especially for rares whose physicality wasn't too special besides being flimsy sheets of paper anyway (Tsojconth, Fazzlewood, Tamoachan, etc.). The reason why woodgrain boxes retain their value even though the book contents can be had much cheaper in a white box, is precisely because that woodgrain box cannot be put in a satisfactory PDF format. A PDF box just isn't the same... ditto for PotVQ's black folder.
bclarkie wrote:FWIW, I agree with William 100%. I have said this before but to reiterate, if there is one person out there, just 1, that decides not to buy an item becuase it freely available on pdf, then the item in question has lost value. You can debate how little of difference that 1 person might make, but the fact is that the value of the item is less than it would be if that peson was out there bidding on that same item trying to buy it.. OB3 may not have decreased in price since it was freely available on pdf, but the problem is that we never know how much more it could have increased if it was not now freely available.
bclarkie wrote:Your point about what ifs is well taken in regards to the mythical person who might now want an original copy of OB3 because of the pdf. However, that being said, I have seen a lot more evidence of people in my experience that are now less likely to bid on/buy an item becuase they have the pdf, then the otehr way around. One only needs to visit www.dragonsfoot.org to see what I mean. I have been browsing that forum for about a month now, and I can tell you thatI have seen at least 30 different people there to make reference to the fact that they would just assume have a pdf than a original. Don't get me wrong that site is actually very cool, but it is without a doubt a gamers site. Most of the folks over there are much more interested in getting the material as cheply as possible and they could care less as to what format that it comes in. I have yet to see someone who says that because of the pdf that they have, they are now on the lookout for the original. Now if those 30 different people might have bought a used module out of your store instead of going to rpgnow, that to me is hurting the value of the original items. Just my $.02.
dathon wrote:For example, if I had known a PDF were available for ST1 I would not have bought one for $1,200. I have photocopies of couple of the ultra rares, therefore I will never spend the money they go for now since they lack the mystique of my never having seen them. I doubt I am alone in this regard.
dathon wrote:There's a reason why Rolex, Coach, Polo, etc. go after those who make the cheap knockoffs; some of the people who buy them would have bought the original if they had no other choice.
dathon wrote:As bclarkie alluded to, just because the price of OB3s has gone up since 1998 does not mean it would have gone up even further if there were no PDFs available
Xaxaxe wrote:dathon wrote:There's a reason why Rolex, Coach, Polo, etc. go after those who make the cheap knockoffs; some of the people who buy them would have bought the original if they had no other choice.Strongly disagree — the people who buy these sorts of knock-offs are either cheap, total wannabees, looking to impress someone, or the sort of person who is always out to "beat the system" (or some combination of all four). This sort of person is not in the market for a $5,000 watch, and never will be. Given the "choice" of spending $5,000 on a watch or spending $0 and not getting a watch, this person will always choose the second option.dathon wrote:As bclarkie alluded to, just because the price of OB3s has gone up since 1998 does not mean it would have gone up even further if there were no PDFs availableWe're back to pure speculation here. This argument is impossible to prove one way or the other.+++++If we look at actual evidence, it seems pretty clear that the PDF revolution has had very little effect on sales of D&D collectibles. The orange B3 is the absolute perfect example: despite having been a FREE download for a period of years, sales of the actual, physical module tend to be very strong. How can this be so? Well, to steal a line from Porsche: "there is no substitute." By which I mean that for many, many collectors out there, there is no substitute for owning the actual item.And this goes way beyound the rares, too. Boxed sets, super-modules, accessory items (Rogues Gallery, for example), hardcover rulebooks, ODD booklets: all of these are available either for free or for $4.99 or less at various download sites. Yet sales of physical items remain strong across all categories — just ask anyone who tracks eBay data or uses data-mining software.Now, I'm not totally naive: I do believe that, over time, some D&D sales have probably been either lost or diminished by the PDF phenomenon (again, though, I'd like to see some evidence of this). However, I have a question for anyone who thinks the PDF factor has had a major impact on sales of D&D collectibles: if pure speculation and "hypothetical people" don't count, where is your evidence?
Xaxaxe wrote:However, I have a question for anyone who thinks the PDF factor has had a major impact on sales of D&D collectibles: if pure speculation and "hypothetical people" don't count, where is your evidence?