Hola folks---

Passing along a message from Erol Otus from Facebook:

Hello friends!  I’m planning to make signed prints in 2021.  To that end I’m trying to locate some of my long-lost original artwork, the D&D Basic Cover, many module covers like “Dwellers of the Forbidden City”, “In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords”, “Palace of the Silver Princess”, and more.  I’m not trying to acquire the original artwork; I am trying to get high quality scans of the originals.  If you have them, or know their whereabouts could you let me know?  Can post here or send me a message, whatever you feel comfortable with.  I did contact renowned collector Matthew Koder, he has the back cover to "Keep on the Borderlands" but that’s about it.  Thank you!

Original post at https://www.facebook.com/jimpers.numnum ... 0704143233

If you own or are aware of ownership for any of his original pieces of art, please get in touch via FB (or ping me here and I'll pass the info along if you're not on FB).  

Allan.

Just to play devil's advocate, if you owned an EO original, or more for that matter, presumably you already respect the artist and paid handsomely for your artwork. Artwork which will appreciate in value and is sitting someone unknown and anonymously. I don't see any benefit to the owner of such artwork pieces to put them up for scanning, expose them to shipping (insured), handling by many, and the unknown effects of a scanning/photographic process. The net result for the artwork owner (who clearly values the art piece more than a fight with an insurance company to seek a payout(, is to see many high quality full size copies of his art piece on the market, and in competition for any money he may wish to get for his original in the future. Add to that the risk of copies of the photographic scans getting into the wild.

I don't see why anyone who had invested considerable funds in original art would undergo any of that.

Secondly, wasn't there recently a book about the art of D&D and how it developed over the course of the game. The one that came with a copy of the original (and unknown of) Tomb of Horrors in the box. Surely the author would be able to give pointers of the art pieces he'd uncovered.

aia wrote in Erol Otus seeking original artwork scans for prints:That is really a weird idea... While everyone i able to make prints, he is EO! He could spend his time by doing artworks... I miss the reason why he is oriented in printings rather that doing new drawings...

With all the interest in the OSR and the slew of new (and pretty high quality) stuff coming out regularly, why he does not take his share of the market, and go into competition with the bigger names of today, I don't get. I can only assume he's giving up for whatever reason and this is a last ditch effort to squeeze any final revenue he can from his past works.

stratochamp wrote in Erol Otus seeking original artwork scans for prints:So I assume Ian you can then understand why collector's of exceedingly rare RPG products that they have spent (in some cases) thousands of dollars on don't want to have their items scanned? I think the reason for this disconnect is that printed RPG items (no matter how rare) are still viewed in most quarters as having their value defined by their utility as a game product as opposed to their rarity as a collectable. IMO when a 1st Print Dwarven Glory (or a Pharaoh or a Lost Tamoachan) is valued mostly for its scarcity & impact instead of being graded on its content, then prices will really rise.

I can certainly understand why scans of items that have not been made available by the rightful IP holder raise concerns for collectors. I think the IP holder has the right to do with his product as he sees fit, as it is his property. And if someone owned the only known copy of Caverns of Hypotheticus, the unpublished adventure manuscript from the archives of the famous and well known Authors Namehere, then I'd question whether he would be wise surrendering such a manuscript to said author to help him in publishing copies of it. Without financial compensation that would make him either incredibly stupid or incredibly magnanimous. For that reason alone, I don't see Planes of Existence seeing the light of day, and it wouldn't surprise me if the author still retained the text. So the risk is still there that it may, but who outside of maybe a few hundred know about the manuscripts existence, or care.

As for the likes of Pharoah, Dwarven Glory and Lost Tamoachan (for example), these are sadly the types of products (very rare) that have never passed through my hands. The nearest I've got to seeing those three are eBay photos (Pharoah), the authorised publicly released PDF reprint (Dwarven Glory), and the earliest known pirate PDF to go online as far as I'm aware of (Lost Tamoachan), the one with the blue label on the front cover of the scan - a truly horrific quality scan.

I don't think that the mere presence of a PDF has an impact on the auction price of rare items. For example, anyone can type 'ST1 Up The Garden Path PDF' into Google and download a fairly reasonable quality PDF of the module, and lets not forget WoTC published the Orange B3 in PDF and gave it away free to anyone who wanted to download it. But I don't think these have impacted on the value of ST1 or OB3 in the market. The desire to OWN being matched with the resources to do so, are motivations unaffected by those with the desire to read those things. Collectors don't buy them because they are curious and want to read them, they buy them because they want to hold them and care for them I think.

In regards to the disconnect you observe between 'rarity/uniqueness' and 'perceived quality of writing' or 'utility in gameplay', part of that equation surely is driven by author, publishing house, and reputation. To draw a comparison to say - rare 20th century 1st day covers - You have two novels, one with a very low print run from an author who never published any other works, and most of which were pulped by the publisher because they couldn't be sold, and you have a 1st day cover from the likes of Agatha Christie. The first in all likelihood being the rarer document, but the second most likely to be more sought after and of greater quality of writing. Neither of which is likely to be read by a collector of 1st day covers. I think D&D collectables kinda follow that path, and I don't see it changing, because you are buying and collecting literary works.

stratochamp wrote in Erol Otus seeking original artwork scans for prints:... when a 1st Print Dwarven Glory <snip> is valued mostly for its scarcity & impact instead of being graded on its content, then prices will really rise.

In order to accurately value an item (for yourself to judge how much you'd pay), based upon scarcity and impact (on the world of RPGs), you have to viewing that item from a position of quite considerable knowledge of D&D history and development, and appreciation of the actors involved. That really limits the field of people who can view items in the same manner, so the number of available unit that may be bid higher on those criteria alone is very low. And once you've got 5 or 10 copies of Pharoah, there comes a time when items go for lesser money to those with different ways of valuing what they're buying.
Likewise, there are only so many people who will pay through the nose for something I may perceive as crap writing, before one will come up at a price palatable to me and my budget. A case in point being the really rather rare Dreamworlds stuff, and the Hess Games products that were on eBay recently, both at pretty low prices on account of being pretty dire products, and a bargain for someone wanting something 'rare'.

Unique items are a world unto their own.

stratochamp wrote in Erol Otus seeking original artwork scans for prints:I have hundreds (500...600 I'm not really sure) of unique items. So you will at least grant that I should not make those available for scanning?

If you want to protect your investment, I wouldn't make anything you own that is rare, very rare, or unique available for scanning. If you wanted to ensure you had your own digital backup, it is something you should do yourself, and that is only something you really need to think about if you value the 'content' of the item greatly (ie the content in and of itself is significant, and you consider its loss would be considerably bad out with loss of value.)

stratochamp wrote in Erol Otus seeking original artwork scans for prints:I'm not going to comment point by point in response to your post, ...

I am sure you are far busier that I am... and far less bored.

stratochamp wrote in Erol Otus seeking original artwork scans for prints:... but I do wonder why you compared rare RPG items to rare books. I would think the closer comparison point would be comic books. Personally I think the price point for the super rare collectables in our hobby have the capacity to rise dramatically. Perhaps a 1st print brown box will not sell for $2 million to Nick Cage; maybe he'd only be willing to pay $200,000 for one. But it took forty years for a 1st print Superman to sell for $25,000. What the top echelon collectors are willing to pay for a super rare item is more germane to this discussion than what a collector who is buying it for use is willing to pay for it.

It was purely the first comparison that came to mind. I don't know much about comic book collecting, but I can see differences, some of which Acaeum is trying to close.
i. Comic book collecting is more widespread that RPG collecting, and more talked about by the MSM.
ii. There are recognised bodies who evaluate the quality of the top tier collectables, and this creates trust and validation in the minds of the public. Similar knowledge to do this with RPGs is very disparate, and for D&D is centred here, but there are very few who have ever seen, let alone would be able to offer a trusted opinion on the quality and/or value of the top tier rares/uniques in our hobby. So maybe a certification/grading service is something someone may consider looking into. Would there be a demand?

It is a niche hobby. From a collectors point of view that keeps prices down and competition low. I certainly put more money in than I got back out, but I know why that was, and it had little to do with what I chose to buy, and more to do with bad timing and the urgency with which I had to sell up.

As a generation of collectors comes along that have no first hand experience with much of the rare and unique items, their legacy or their authors, I could see then valuing things based on perceived wisdom and lore garnered from what they read online. How that affects price and value we can only speculate. One would assume there must come a time when something is valuable primarily because it is old and rare, but when that transition happens is anyone's guess.

Back on topic though, I don't quite see the comparison to EO seeking to find and scan his old art pieces, unless what you are saying is that the prints should not have an impact in the desirability or value of the original. I can agree with that premise in principle - the original remains unique and it's significance as the front cover of Module X remains significant. The unknowns are, whether the presence of prints on the market diminishes demand as potential buyers settle for a cheaper print, or whether the prints increase demand for the original as a result of greater awareness and/or appreciation of EO and his works. And there is still the question of the owner shipping the painting to EO, it being unpacked and handled by however many people at that end, and it then being entrusted to the main system to have it returned to the owner. The generosity and trust needed to do that with a painting one values is not inconsiderable.

Anyways, good luck to him. I for one would be in line to buy a print or two if he manages to pull this off.
A biopic or coffee table book filled with his anecdotes and inspirations is something I'd be far more interested in buying (and I'd buy the PDF too.)

I can see why Erol Otus would love to get electronic copies of his original artwork and sell prints of them. It would allow him to earn additional income from his former works, at least the ones he retained the rights to. I don't believe that selling high quality prints of them would harm the value of the originals. People who collect original art basically own a unique product. I have the original Jaquays painting used for the RQ2 Griffin Mountain book cover hanging on the wall in my office, very close to the Luise painting used for the RQ2 rulebook, and the Swenston ink drawing used for the 2nd edition cover of White Bear & Red Moon.

Chaosium sells posters of cover art online and I don't expect that has hurt the value of my originals, any more than prints of a Warhol painting are going to lower the value of that original. I'm pretty sure a first edition, first printing of Oliver Twist is not worth less because the book is currently available in Barnes & Noble. As for damage to the original, paintings don't have to be scanned. Paintings can be photographed. That's where the term "camera ready art" came from. Chaosium didn't scan the Griffin Mountain painting to create the cover of the book back in 1981, they had it photographed. A few years ago I contacted Jennell Jaquays and asked her about getting an electronic copy of the original artwork used for the cover of Cults of Terror. I reimbursed her for having it photographed by a professional. Yes, it took some of her time, but there was little chance of any damage being done.

As for rare or unique items and scanning them, I'm a big believer in making that happen. Chaosium recently made available almost all of the RuneQuest 1 and 2 product line as print on demand titles. As some of you might know, I'm a long time obsessive RPG collector. I don't worry about the value of my collection decreasing because of the reprints. I want more people to enjoy the game material, at least by reading it, if not actually using it in game sessions. Collectors want originals, preferably in excellent or better condition. Also, sometimes reprinting works widens their popularity and increases the value of the originals.

ps: yes, that's the Acaeum website on my computer screen. I took the photo while writing this post.

Yup, me too. I think he would have a ready list of buyers.