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Post Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:01 pm 
 

Doomkeep was written by Brian Blume (I put that in the wiki).
Wierd. It wasn't listed in the table of contents, but listed in the sidebar of the contents page (4th paragraph). his name appears nowhere on the module itslef.

Upladed a new image of the contents page (400dpi).
Had to download irfanview, as my old editing software could not handle the size of the file at that scan quality.

Irfanview rocks, btw.


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:40 pm 
 

HermitFromPluto wrote:Morning Mike - nice tidbits added to Dungeon's 33 and 37!!!  :)


Have I mentioned I REALLY like the wiki?  :D   Mostly because tidbits like that are floating around and it's great to have them all in one place.  I wish I had more time than to just hit and run every day for a few minutes....it's quite addictive!  

And lots more tidbits to come once more Dungeon/Dragon mags start going up....!

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:30 am 
 

Hello wiki editors:

A few short notes about how the categories work.  It is a two tier system, with regular categories and supercatgories.  A regular category can only contain non-category pages, and must belong to exactly one of these supercategories: 'Games, Settings, Periodicals, Companies, Years, People'.  A supercategory can only contain category pages.  This flat structure guarantees that the user can get to any page from the sidebar with 3 clicks (well, not quite, because some supercategories such as People span multiple pages).  Keeping to this scheme also ensures that the number of pages in each category (displayed on the main page) are correct.

We've put too much content (text/images) on some of the category pages, pushing the auto-generated listing almost below the fold in some cases, which is not good, since these pages are navigational aids, not full-fledged wiki articles.  I'm working on a standard format for the category pages.  For games, settings, and periodicals it will include some thumbnails and a few links, and hopefully won't consume more than 200px of vertical space.  So don't sink a lot of effort into the cat pages; I may undo it.

If someone is motivated to write at length about a game system, setting, or periodical, an option is to put the page in the Essay: namespace and put a link to it from the cat page.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:09 pm 
 

As I get time, I will be posting stuff covering both Shadowrun and Earthdawn, so now is the time to help me finish my collection. ;)

Technically, they are separate games and have different settings, yet they are tied to each. How would you like them listed?


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:13 pm 
 

serleran wrote:As I get time, I will be posting stuff covering both Shadowrun and Earthdawn, so now is the time to help me finish my collection. ;)

Technically, they are separate games and have different settings, yet they are tied to each. How would you like them listed?


I would list them as two separate games, so make 'Earthdawn' a game category and 'Shadowrun' a game category. When you describe the core rulebooks, you could talk about similarities between the game systems and link them that way. As they are both FASA products, they will automatically be collected together on the FASA company page anyway.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:54 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Have I mentioned I REALLY like the wiki?  :D   Mostly because tidbits like that are floating around and it's great to have them all in one place.  I wish I had more time than to just hit and run every day for a few minutes....it's quite addictive!  

And lots more tidbits to come once more Dungeon/Dragon mags start going up....!

Mike B.


Hey Mike.
Just noticed the tidbits you posted about dungeon 33 & 37, and was going to update Dragon 109 & 111, but you beat me to it.

Addictive is not the word.

Check out Dungeon 109 & 111 again, I tweaked them a little bit more.


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:01 pm 
 

jkason wrote:
Hey Mike.
Just noticed the tidbits you posted about dungeon 33 & 37, and was going to update Dragon 109 & 111, but you beat me to it.

Addictive is not the word.

Check out Dungeon 109 & 111 again, I tweaked them a little bit more.


Heh, sorry about that!  Dungeon mags are a personal love of mine.  I consider them possibly the best supplemental RPG item ever produced...3-6 adventures every two months for less than $5?  Are you kidding me?  :D  What a deal!  And I was a subscriber since issue #6. What a great mag! We used the hell out of it back in the day.

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:31 pm 
 

Mike,
If you have time, I want you to check out the issue of Dragon I just put up (359).

Don't know if it has exactly the right "feel" to it. It could use a tweaking.

Maybe it's just becuase it's out of the chronoloical order.


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:23 am 
 

jkason wrote:Mike,
If you have time, I want you to check out the issue of Dragon I just put up (359).

Don't know if it has exactly the right "feel" to it. It could use a tweaking.

Maybe it's just becuase it's out of the chronoloical order.


You're doing a great job man!  

Just keep putting them up, doing all the hard work, I'll keep slipping in and adding the tidbits (the easy work)  :D

I thought the #359 looked alright..but since the last Dragon I own is somewhere around the #320's I can't really double check any of them that late in the run.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:01 pm 
 

Apologies to grubbiv for having to fix a pile of my "sort orders," I'll try to keep that in mind.  I also like what you did with the Combatant's Guide as far as the acknowledgements went.  It looks nicer in the list.

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:27 am 
 

Kersus wrote:Apologies to grubbiv for having to fix a pile of my "sort orders," I'll try to keep that in mind.  I also like what you did with the Combatant's Guide as far as the acknowledgements went.  It looks nicer in the list.
K


I may occasionally make a pass thru the articles to make some point of style consistent.  The issue here is how we deal with an item like "The Adventure Begins".  If you create a page with the same name as the title, it gets filed in the DCC category under T instead of A.  Instead of creating the page name under "Adventure Begins" (which I was earlier doing) or "Adventure Begins, The", I'm now recommending creating the page name under "The Adventure Begins" and specifying the sort order when categorizing:

 {{CL|Dungeon Crawl Classics||Adventure Begins, The}}

Even though this is a bit more work, I think it is worth it because the page name appears both in the URL and in bold at the top of the article.  Unfortunately, it is necessary to specify the sort order for every category the page is put into.  I haven't been doing it for people yet, because most credit lists are pretty short.

Newer versions of mediawiki have a DEFAULTSORT keyword to specify the sort order for all categories in one fell swoop.  I wish we had that for our wiki, but we are using an older version of mediawiki to be compatible with php4.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:32 am 
 

People have been wondering whether to categorize early Kingdoms of Kalamar as AD&D 2E given that was not officially licensed but clearly intended for it.  One option is to create a separate game category called 'AD&D 2nd Edition (unlicensed)'.  That way people who are only interested in the official stuff don't have to look at it, but we aren't forced to file it under 'Universal Supplement'.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:32 am 
 

grubbiv wrote:People have been wondering whether to categorize early Kingdoms of Kalamar as AD&D 2E given that was not officially licensed but clearly intended for it.  One option is to create a separate game category called 'AD&D 2nd Edition (unlicensed)'.  That way people who are only interested in the official stuff don't have to look at it, but we aren't forced to file it under 'Universal Supplement'.



Weren't there products that said they were for use with AD&D but were actually not licensed to say so?

It seems to me that categorizing early Kalamar items as unlicensed is making a much more ambiguous statement than intended.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:44 am 
 

grubbiv wrote:One option is to create a separate game category called 'AD&D 2nd Edition (unlicensed)'.  That way people who are only interested in the official stuff don't have to look at it, but we aren't forced to file it under 'Universal Supplement'.


This is a tricky thing to deal with well but something that would be good to get organized early.  There are lots of 3rd party items that are "generic" but may also contain D&D stats or stats for other systems such as Runequest, etc.  Some say specificallly infer that they can be used with D&D where others may not explicitly state it but will have stats block that are essentially D&D.

For the early Kalamar items, I think they all state that they are suitable for any RPG including but not limited to AD&D.

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:20 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
This is a tricky thing to deal with well but something that would be good to get organized early.  There are lots of 3rd party items that are "generic" but may also contain D&D stats or stats for other systems such as Runequest, etc.  Some say specificallly infer that they can be used with D&D where others may not explicitly state it but will have stats block that are essentially D&D.

For the early Kalamar items, I think they all state that they are suitable for any RPG including but not limited to AD&D.
I would say thumbs down to early Kalamar as 2nd edition AD&D. I finally looked at a few of the earlier supplements and while VERY evocative of 2E they are not officially that game system and very obviously state they are for any RPG.  They seem to be pretty much in the "generic" category unless someone has evidence to the contrary (I only have a few of these).
I really think the "unlicensed" category is creating too much work.

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:03 am 
 

grubbiv wrote:People have been wondering whether to categorize early Kingdoms of Kalamar as AD&D 2E given that was not officially licensed but clearly intended for it.  One option is to create a separate game category called 'AD&D 2nd Edition (unlicensed)'.  That way people who are only interested in the official stuff don't have to look at it, but we aren't forced to file it under 'Universal Supplement'.


Kenzer and Company is responsible for Knights of the Dinner Table. WOTC, years ago, published a Best of Dragon Magazine product for the computer that had all the magazines on it (I forgot what it was called). However, WOTC sorta forgot that they did not have permission to re-issue the KoTD comics on this product. Kenzer sued WOTC, and they settled it by allowing Kenzer to issue Kingdoms of Kalamar as a D&D Product, and to allow them to run Living Kingdoms of Kalamar through the RPGA Living Campaign system. Living Kingdoms of Kalamar ended at Origins 2008 as an official RPGA Living Campaign, and is now renamed Ledgends of Kalamar (being run outside the auspices of the RPGA).

And I didn't know that there was 2E Kalamar Product from Kenzer. I thought that this was all strictly 3E?

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:00 pm 
 

Invincible Overlord wrote:Kenzer and Company is responsible for Knights of the Dinner Table. WOTC, years ago, published a Best of Dragon Magazine product for the computer that had all the magazines on it (I forgot what it was called). However, WOTC sorta forgot that they did not have permission to re-issue the KoTD comics on this product. Kenzer sued WOTC, and they settled it by allowing Kenzer to issue Kingdoms of Kalamar as a D&D Product, and to allow them to run Living Kingdoms of Kalamar through the RPGA Living Campaign system. Living Kingdoms of Kalamar ended at Origins 2008 as an official RPGA Living Campaign, and is now renamed Ledgends of Kalamar (being run outside the auspices of the RPGA).


Do you have a reliable source for this?  I would be interested in the details of what really happened.  This Wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_(magazine)

suggests that it is all KoTD's fault that the Dragon Archive is out of print and "hard to find" :)

I thought that Kenzer negotiated the rights to use all the old D&D stuff for Hackmaster from this.  For the Kalamar D20 items, there is an open license so they could say for use with D&D without any problem.

With the Dragon Archive, the copyright issue was not limited to Kenzer but to anyone who submitted an independent article or adventure or comic.  The number that I heard floated around was that it added half a million dollars to the project.  If you look at the downloads for newer Dragon magazines, some of them are not complete PDFs because of licensing restrictions.

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:01 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
Do you have a reliable source for this?  I would be interested in the details of what really happened.  This Wiki entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_(magazine)

suggests that it is all KoTD's fault that the Dragon Archive is out of print and "hard to find" :)

I thought that Kenzer negotiated the rights to use all the old D&D stuff for Hackmaster from this.  For the Kalamar D20 items, there is an open license so they could say for use with D&D without any problem.

With the Dragon Archive, the copyright issue was not limited to Kenzer but to anyone who submitted an independent article or adventure or comic.  The number that I heard floated around was that it added half a million dollars to the project.  If you look at the downloads for newer Dragon magazines, some of them are not complete PDFs because of licensing restrictions.


The conversation was with a former Living Kalamar Director. KenzerCo is not that big of a company, so I'm sure his conversation was with one of 3 or 4 full-time employees at the company.

And I'm sure that WoTC is blaming Kenzer   8)

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