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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:48 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:And there's another problem right there: comics grading features a grade that no one, in fact, ever uses!  8O Because KoP is right: the way the system works, no buyer is ever going to believe "mint" unless the issue went from press to sealed mylar bag, with only gloved hands touching it in between.

But, seriously, if "mint" is never used or believed in the world of comics ... why even have the grade in the first place?


Diamond distributors, publishers, and some of the other third party companies are able to get comics sent to CGC for grading just after they come off the press.  More often than not this is where you will see the 9.9 and 10.0 grades come from.  Most of these are the limited artwork covers done specifically for that company and fetch ridiculously high prices.

Comic book collecting has become such a beatdown over the last ten years or so that I am thinking of dropping out of it almost entirely.  For one, it sucks paying $3 or more for a single issue of a comic book.  Now I find out that my very fine copy of Amazing Spider-Man #4 may not be in nearly as nice a condition as I previously thought.  So do I keep it ungraded and hope it keeps its value or do I get it graded and risk getting a lower grade and thus dropping the value?

Anyone who doesn't believe me should attend a comic book convention: you'll never see an unhappier group of people.


Well I dont know if its quite that bad.  I just thought most of them looked unhappy because they just bought that spiffy new superhero costume and then realized that they couldnt fit their ass into it.  :roll:   The few comic book conventions I have attended over the last few years were pretty pathetic.  Even Wizard World Texas was iffy.  I still havent managed to get my ass to the San Diego Comicon which is supposed to be the biggest and best.  I was planning on going back in '96 or '97 and couldnt swing it.  My buddy came back to tell me how great it was.  Apparently there was an Adult Video convention going on next door and a lot of co-mingling between the two conventions occurred.  Obviously there were lots and lots of photographs!  :wink:


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:29 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:I loathe what Overstreet and his lackeys did to the world of comics collecting in the 60s. Comic books should be fun; instead, we're on our second or third generation of collectors who are pre-conditioned to obsess about condition at the expense of ... I know this will sound crazy ... actually enjoying their purchases. I understand that condition is a factor in all collectible hobbies, but it's just over-the-top in the world of comics.


I totally agree.  What seems insane to me is the whole idea of CCGing a comic book.  You pay someone to seal it up and make it unusable and unreadable.  Crazy!  When I bought my comics, I went mostly for very good to very fine condition comics.  Holy cow, they were SOOOOO much cheaper and great to read.  I have a collection that I don't mind my kids reading either.  Maybe the only crazy thing I did was bag and board them.  Comic books should be fun!

It seems to be that paper comic books are going out of style.  I understand Marvel and other companies now have issues on-line.  I thought perhaps the Manga style was going to garner a whole new crew of comic book fans into the hobby, but that doesn't appear to be growing, or growing much, at this point(at least in this country).  As people from the sixties and seventies retire and die, I could see prices dropping or levelling off at best, espcially relative to inflation.  

Then again, with so many Marvel and DC inspired movies coming out, perhaps there is a healthy future yet.  I thought the three Spidey and three X-Men movies would jump start the hobby, but I now sense it's just prolonged it.  I hope I'm wrong.

Xaxaxe wrote:Anyone who doesn't believe me should attend a comic book convention: you'll never see an unhappier group of people.


I don't disagree, I just wonder why. Prehaps they are too concerned about the value or condition instead of the fun:?:


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:38 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote:It seems to be that paper comic books are going out of style.  I understand Marvel and other companies now have issues on-line.  I thought perhaps the Manga style was going to garner a whole new crew of comic book fans into the hobby, but that doesn't appear to be growing, or growing much, at this point(at least in this country).


From discussions with the manager of the local shops, while paper copies of single issues are going out of style trade paperbacks are doing a fairly good-selling business.

You don't know how many times he's said about a particular series that it's not selling that well, but it will do fine in trades. :lol:


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:45 pm 
 

Trades might have saved comics ... well, that and the fact that many titles just seem to be IP place-holders waiting for a movie studio to come along with its checkbook.

Wait, where was I? Trades, right. Wonderful concept, and a lifeline to an industry that now sees companies send out press releases when a title breaks over 100,00 in circulation. Hell, 100,000 could easily get you canceled in the 1970s, where everyone from the company president to the cleaning lady expected six figures in sales.

It's truly startling (and not a little bit depressing) how few comics are sold today. I need to find a top 100 list and post it here: it's just sad that a book with like 11,000 in sales will make the top 100.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:56 pm 
 

While I don't know where to get the Top X lists online, Publishers Weekly's blog posts the month-to-month sales for DC and Marvel as they become available.

Going by the most recent numbers (Feb 2008), DC doesn't have a single title doing above 100,000 -- the execrable All-Star Batman & Robin #9 was their best seller at 93,766 copies.

As for Marvel, they only had two titles selling above 100,000: X-Force #1 at 105,149 (X-Force #1 their top selling comic?  Now there's a '90s flashback for you :lol: ) and New Avengers #38 at 104,140.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:17 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:
Ack, somebody stop me. I could go on for days here. I loathe what Overstreet and his lackeys did to the world of comics collecting in the 60s. Comic books should be fun; instead, we're on our second or third generation of collectors who are pre-conditioned to obsess about condition at the expense of ... I know this will sound crazy ... actually enjoying their purchases. I understand that condition is a factor in all collectible hobbies, but it's just over-the-top in the world of comics. Anyone who doesn't believe me should attend a comic book convention: you'll never see an unhappier group of people.


Oh, I don't know X, King and I just worked at a mini con this weekend. The fans and kids all seemed relaxed and happy; it was the DEALERS themselves that seemed unhappy. Whether they were mad at themselves at speculating and ending up with so much unsellable garbage, or not moving enough material at guide prices (enough about GUIDE PRICES...comics should sell at what they are worth, what someone whould pay, PERIOD, much as gaming stuff does), or mad at having to deal face to face with fans (it's not a secret that a lot of comic shop dealers loathe their customer base), who knows. They are always the ones I see with sour looks on their faces.  My wife and I (and apparantly King, who dumped all his Spawn and Star Trek figures for cheaper than dirt prices) had a ball. We got to eyeball Christina Hendricks (yum) and Kandyse McClure (Battlestar Galactica) and Cindy Morgan (Lacy Underalls from Caddyshack still looks good), talk to a lot of fans (one guy bought all my Traveller overstock and said he'd be at Gencon this year, cool), and two guys in particular at my booth left with big smiles after finding some stuff they had been looking for to finish their collections (XMen and Conan books, respectively).  

Problem is a lot of dealers remember the "good old days" of the early 90s, when ANYTHING  you had doubled in price almost immediately and was snapped up by a rabid, undiscriminating fan base that was clueless to the fact that comics with one million print runs were virtually worthless.  Note to speculators: those days have come and gone, and good riddance. If you can't enjoy the simple act of flipping open a comic and reading it, you need to be in another hobby, because those days are never coming back.  I hope to never see that happen in our hobby, but the recent spate of over the top prices has me getting just a bit nervous.  

And I echo the appearance of the nice hardcover trades of the great 60s and earlier comics that are now being pubished; I'd rather have these beautiful editions on my bookshelves than have the originals in a hermetically sealed xenon gas filled case (out of the light of course) where you can never read the damn things.

And a little known secret? Some of the best comics ever written are being put out today.  Comics actually being written by adults for adults with wonderfully imaginative and beautifully illustrated mature storylines.  It's actually a good time to be a comic reader.  There's a reason why the intellectually bankrupt film industry keeps raiding the comic book stacks for ideas from Sin City to 300 to Hellboy to the newer versions of Batman, Hulk, Iron Man, Superman, and beyond.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:27 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Cindy Morgan (Lacy Underalls from Caddyshack still looks good) ...

Interesting. She's always given me a very peculiar feeling ... it's like a groin-pull, only it doesn't really hurt.

Okay, I'll stop now; family website and all that. I also don't need a repeat of the Erin Gray / GenGon SoCal 2004 / restraining order debacle.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:28 pm 
 

Other than the X-Men series, every superhero movie has sucked ass. Typical Hollywood formulaic crap. The hero always either:

A. Falls in love.
B. Has secret identity exposed.
C. Both A and B.

Iron Man looks so downright stupid that I can't even see myself Netflixing it. I'm sure The Hulk will be no different.
Personally, I think that the decline of comic books has a lot to do with computers/game consoles. Kids would rather play a video game than read a book.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:32 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Badmike wrote:
 Cindy Morgan (Lacy Underalls from Caddyshack still looks good) ...  

Interesting. She's always given me a very peculiar feeling ... it's like a groin-pull, only it doesn't really hurt.

Okay, I'll stop now; family website and all that. I also don't need a repeat of the Erin Gray / GenGon SoCal 2004 / restraining order debacle.


For her age (50?), Cindy looked pretty good.  She looked like she had either had a lot of work done, or kept herself in tip top shape, because she was instantly recognizable as the same actress who made our pants go crazy back in the early 80s with Caddyshack, Tron and Falcon's Crest.  I'd say she could pass for a good ten years younger than her age under the right circumstances.  

To bad you weren't there X...she wasn't as popular as some of the other stars and had lots of free time; you could have bored her to death with "Want to tie me up with some of my ties?" or "Want to earn 14 bucks the hard way?" lines..... :D

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:25 pm 
 

Wow, comics look to be a beast it seems. Okay well got some good advice, shall relay that to my brother and see just what he wants to sell.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:54 pm 
 

Yeah, sorry about that, Shane. I think I forgot the original question.   :)

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:18 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:Yeah, sorry about that, Shane. I think I forgot the original question.   :)


:lol:

Don't have to apologize, pretty much knew comics were going to be a hot button topic..but I got help from it and may actually see about collecting some of the various ones I have that got picked up in an estate sale.

Since this is a D&D site though, how well are the AD&D or Dragonlance comics received/valued?

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:16 pm 
 

Deadlord39 wrote:Other than the X-Men series, every superhero movie has sucked ass. Typical Hollywood formulaic crap. The hero always either:

A. Falls in love.
B. Has secret identity exposed.
C. Both A and B.

Iron Man looks so downright stupid that I can't even see myself Netflixing it. I'm sure The Hulk will be no different.
Personally, I think that the decline of comic books has a lot to do with computers/game consoles. Kids would rather play a video game than read a book.


Eh, nothing wrong with a formula.  James Bond movies have had exactly the same plot (I mean, EXACTLY) for 40 years and I still love them.  The trick is how well they pull it off. The Spiderman movies were great fun; I also liked the new Batman flick a couple years ago (not the excreable earlier stuff of the 90s).  Superman Returns was also fun, and Fantatic Four was pure vomit. So depends on the treatment really; be interesting to see what they do with one of the most hypec comics of all time, Watchmen, when that hits the screen (although I can't see that working as anything but a mini series).

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 7:17 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:
:lol:

Don't have to apologize, pretty much knew comics were going to be a hot button topic..but I got help from it and may actually see about collecting some of the various ones I have that got picked up in an estate sale.

Since this is a D&D site though, how well are the AD&D or Dragonlance comics received/valued?

ShaneG.


Complete runs do ok.  Individual issues do nothing.  There were a few memorable prices paid last year at Gencon, IIRC, for some full runs of D&D comics.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:45 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Fantatic Four was pure vomit.

Mike B.


Although I didnt think either FF movie was particularly good, they both had good action sequences, some good comedy, and well done special effects.  And Jessica Alba in a skintight costume is nothing to scoff at.

They were both on a par with Daredevil, The Punisher, and Hulk.  Can't say anything about Ghost Rider.  It is one comic book movie that I have heard and read so many bad things about I have yet to see it.

And although I enjoyed watching Spider-Man 3 and I think Sam Raimi is a good director, I am pretty sure I could have made a better movie.  One villain (Venom) would have sufficed, no need for the goofy dance and strutting sequences, and I would have made the movie much darker.  I probably would have had Peter (as Venom) thoroughly trash his life.  I might have had Peter put MJ in the hospital, kill Harry Osborn, and scare the living hell out of J. Jonah Jameson and Aunt May.  And only after screwing up his entire life would he finally get a grip and fight off Venom, only to have it come back as he is trying to put everything back together.  In the end Peter would sacrifice himself to destroy the alien symbiote.  But not before a piece of his genetic material (unknowingly mixed with the alien symbiote) was used by some devious corporation or government entity to create a clone of Peter Parker that would eventually become Carnage.  Nice lead in to a fourth movie.  :P   This way, the studio gets to drop all of the high priced actors and use some cheaper ones but still keep the franchise going....at least until the fifth or sixth movie where we find out that Mary Jane gave birth to Peter's son who miraculously has two extra sets of arms and has been living in Aunt May's basement.  When the clone of Parker begins to fall under the influence of the evil Carnage symbiote and goes on a large scale terror spree through Manhattan, Peter's freakish son dons the costume of his father (which Aunt May has outfitted with four extra arm holes) and faces off against him.  With neither hero nor villain gaining the upper hand throughout the hour long mega-battle the movie finally hits its climax when out of nowhere a monstrous starship appears over Central Park containing a host of symbiotic alien creatures.  Thousands of bums, prostitutes, and falafel vendors become prey to the sybiotic creatures which then spread like a virus over the city.  When all seems lost, the X-Men, Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Howard the Duck, and Hulk all show up to fight the alien horde.  After a brief but spectacular slugfest all of them die horribly in the 20-megaton blast unleashed upon the city by the forces of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Everyone wins.  The studio gets a mega-blockbuster, we dont have to sit through anymore crappy sequels, and they get to do movies with superheroes that people really care about like West Coast Avengers and Moon Knight.  :wink:


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:08 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
Although I didnt think either FF movie was particularly good, they both had good action sequences, some good comedy, and well done special effects.  And Jessica Alba in a skintight costume is nothing to scoff at.

They were both on a par with Daredevil, The Punisher, and Hulk.  Can't say anything about Ghost Rider.  It is one comic book movie that I have heard and read so many bad things about I have yet to see it.

And although I enjoyed watching Spider-Man 3 and I think Sam Raimi is a good director, I am pretty sure I could have made a better movie.  One villain (Venom) would have sufficed, no need for the goofy dance and strutting sequences, and I would have made the movie much darker.  I probably would have had Peter (as Venom) thoroughly trash his life.  I might have had Peter put MJ in the hospital, kill Harry Osborn, and scare the living hell out of J. Jonah Jameson and Aunt May.  And only after screwing up his entire life would he finally get a grip and fight off Venom, only to have it come back as he is trying to put everything back together.  In the end Peter would sacrifice himself to destroy the alien symbiote.  But not before a piece of his genetic material (unknowingly mixed with the alien symbiote) was used by some devious corporation or government entity to create a clone of Peter Parker that would eventually become Carnage.  Nice lead in to a fourth movie.  :P   This way, the studio gets to drop all of the high priced actors and use some cheaper ones but still keep the franchise going....at least until the fifth or sixth movie where we find out that Mary Jane gave birth to Peter's son who miraculously has two extra sets of arms and has been living in Aunt May's basement.  When the clone of Parker begins to fall under the influence of the evil Carnage symbiote and goes on a large scale terror spree through Manhattan, Peter's freakish son dons the costume of his father (which Aunt May has outfitted with four extra arm holes) and faces off against him.  With neither hero nor villain gaining the upper hand throughout the hour long mega-battle the movie finally hits its climax when out of nowhere a monstrous starship appears over Central Park containing a host of symbiotic alien creatures.  Thousands of bums, prostitutes, and falafel vendors become prey to the sybiotic creatures which then spread like a virus over the city.  When all seems lost, the X-Men, Fantastic Four, Ghost Rider, Daredevil, Howard the Duck, and Hulk all show up to fight the alien horde.  After a brief but spectacular slugfest all of them die horribly in the 20-megaton blast unleashed upon the city by the forces of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Everyone wins.  The studio gets a mega-blockbuster, we dont have to sit through anymore crappy sequels, and they get to do movies with superheroes that people really care about like West Coast Avengers and Moon Knight.  :wink:


This is pure gold *taking notes*  :lol:


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:25 pm 
 

If you are looking for comic book sales data and analysis, this is the place to go:

http://www.comichron.com/


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:39 am 
 

Badmike wrote:

And a little known secret? Some of the best comics ever written are being put out today.  Comics actually being written by adults for adults with wonderfully imaginative and beautifully illustrated mature storylines.  It's actually a good time to be a comic reader.  There's a reason why the intellectually bankrupt film industry keeps raiding the comic book stacks for ideas from Sin City to 300 to Hellboy to the newer versions of Batman, Hulk, Iron Man, Superman, and beyond.

Mike B.


And then I thought, for those that haven't read a comic in a few years, why not throw out a couple of suggestions?

Everything I'll mention is either still available, is available as a trade edition, or will be soon.  As a bonus I'll only suggestg comics of this century, as well as only superhero comics.

1.  Bendis/Mallev's Daredevil run.  Quite simply, the best written and illustrated comic arc in perhaps 20 years, and one of the best of all time.  The setup is simple....Matt Murdock is finally outed as Daredevil...but the repercussions, as well as reactions from practically everyone in the Marvel universe, are pure gold.  Not to mention, Matt doesn't go quietly...he basically LIES his ass off to keep his personal and professional lives seperate, even as everything crumbles around him...perhaps making him no better than the scum he fights on the streets and in the courtroom?  This is one of the few comic arcs I re-read on a regular basis, finding nuances I missed every single time.  Superb.

2.  The Ultimates 1st series (Mark Millar & Bryan Hitch). A modern re-imagining of the Avengers as if it happened today and not in the 1960s.  A little over the top in spots, but the Bryan Hitch art is just great.

3.  Green Lantern/Green Lantern Corps Sinestro War. Just finished up, so it'll be a little bit before everything is collected in a trade.  A story so big it suits the galaxy spanning powers of the Green Lanterns, as arch villain Sinestro forms his own "Corps" composed of the worst supervillains of the universe (including Superboy-Prime from Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Anti Monitor, and the Cyborg Superman) as they lay planets to waste on their way to destroy Earth.  Lots of fun.

4.  Green Arrow 2nd series by Kevin Smith & Kevin Hester.  The trade of the story "Quiver" has been collected, and it's an absolute textbook example of what a writer has to do when a comic book character is absolutely, positively D E A D.....and they have to bring him back (Arrow had died a pretty violent, on camera death in issue #100-101 of his previous title).  Smith does a good job of avoiding any and all cliches and has a unique take on bringing Oliver Queen back to the lands of the living. settin the standard for that old nonsense of bringing back a hero from the dead (makes it interesting to see what Brubaker is going to do with Captain America...)

5.  Death of Captain America by Ed Brubaker & Steve Epting. The first 25 issues of Brubaker's take on Cap has been collected, I can't wait to find it in a HPB!  The best post cold war cap, IMO, and another great return from the dead (this time the long gone Bucky Barnes as The Winter Soldier) that I would have absolutely never have thought of handling the way Brubaker did. I trust this guy so much that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to see how this entire "Cap is Dead" mess falls out.  

6. Astonishing X-Men by Joss Whedon and John Cassaday.  Ok, I know the jokes, "Buffy does X-Men" or "X-men meets Firefly".  If you love Whedon's stuff on Buffy, Angel and Firefly, you'll love this comic.  If you didn't you still might enjoy Whedon's very interesting take on the X-men, as he basically trims the team down to a nice half dozen characters and throws them into all sorts of "It's up to us to save the world" situations so we can hear some classic Whedon dialogue and watch some great Cassaday art come to life.

Well, there are a few starting points, I could also suggest perhaps Marvel's Civil War or DC's Identity Crisis, but these are probably better for the more hard core fan, as the casual fan might be confused by a lot of the references within (and to top it off Civil War is as long as hell as it crossed over into every dang Marvel comic).  

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