Help! Has anyone ever seen this before?
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:15 pm 
 

Alright, I snagged this the other day as I have always been a big Tom Moldvay fan(probably since I was introduced to D&D rules through the his Basic rules set :)):




** expired eBay auction **




I have searched everywhere that I know where to look including here, Boardgamegeek, Pen & Paper, ToT and both Afterglow sites and I still can not find anything on it.  I also tried even just several general Google searches and I've turned up nothing.   :?  



Apparently the seller I purchased this from knew Tom personally, as is indicated in the auction, and although the booklet indicates copyrights of 1980, 1986 and 1990, I can not find any indication that this was actually ever released to the public.  One interesting thing about this booklet is that the pages look as if they were printed on a dot-matrix printer.    Now the pages in my copy here may infact also be photocopies of the originals, its tough to tell, but there are also notes written throughout it in red pen which may in fact be editorial notes.  It's an interesting piece to say the least. :)  



Anyway, to get to the point has anyone ever seen or heard of this rules set before?   I am thinking that I may have stumbled on something really interesting here, but I really have no clue where to go from here.


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:38 pm 
 

I think you've found a treasure, Brian (yet again :D ).


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:15 pm 
 

I have a vague recollection of that cover and title. Maybe it is a trick of my bad memory; maybe not.  But there is something familiar about it. Afterall, 1986 was a long time ago.

Regardless, a great find.


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:10 pm 
 

The local game store has one (if I'm remembering it right; not sure) in their glass case, next to the woodgrain box set and some copies of Chainmail, so they obviously value it. Never seen it otherwise.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:26 am 
 

serleran wrote:The local game store has one (if I'm remembering it right; not sure) in their glass case, next to the woodgrain box set and some copies of Chainmail, so they obviously value it. Never seen it otherwise.


What shop is that Serleran?

I think I've seen a copy of this but don't think it was in my collection.  I get the feeling that Tom probably has a few self publications like this.  No doubt it is rare.

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:50 am 
 

Moldvay ran several miniatures tournaments at Gen Con in 81 and 82, including two fantasy scenarios. Perhaps he tested the "Epic Battles" rules in these tournaments, and then later revised and self-published them.

Gencon XIV, August 13-16 1981, U.W. Parkside

25mm Renaissance Miniatures, 2004. A grand battle between two colorful renaissance armies. Each army is composed of several smaller allied groups of diverse nationalities. 8 Hours. Judge: Tom Moldvay. Thursday Noon. Experience Level 3. 12 Players. Wyllie Main Place.

D&D Fantasy Miniatures, 2005. A large scale fantasy miniatures battle in 25mm scale, based on the D&D rules. Elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, humans and plenty of magic will abound. 8+ Hours. Judge: Tom Moldvay. Saturday Noon. Experience Level 3. 12 Players. Wyllie Main Place.

Gencon XV, August 19-22 1982, U.W. Parkside

Clash of the Empires (Renaissance Army Miniatures), 3019. A battle between the armies of the Holy Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire (Germans vs Turks) in the year 1550. Judge: Tom Moldvay. 8 Hours. Thursday 10:00 A.M. Experience Level 4. 10 Players. Wyllie Main Place.

The Island of Death, 4074. Four teams compete against each other and a team of monsters to win a fabulous treasure in this variant D&D game. Each player team will control a zeppelin-type airship and a sailing ship, plus a number of heroes. The event combines miniatures play and role-playing. The first team to win the treasure and return to base wins. The monster team wins if no player team is successful. Judge: Tom Moldvay. 8 Hours. Friday 10:00 A.M. Experience Level 5. 12 Players. Wyllie Main Place.


From this Dragonsfoot thread:
http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... 0&start=30

That thread was for compiling Moldvay's bibliography (after he passed away). The thread's been inactive since June but you (bclarkie) might want to add your "Epic Battles" find.

Is there an artist credited for the cover art?

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:16 am 
 

serleran wrote:The local game store has one (if I'm remembering it right; not sure) in their glass case, next to the woodgrain box set and some copies of Chainmail, so they obviously value it. Never seen it otherwise.


Yeah, where is that shop?  There are currently great deals on airline tickets from Copenhagen to NYC.   :D


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:57 am 
 

I remember Tom's Renaissance games. He and I worked at painting up enough minis to field two armies. I have a printout of the rules he came up with that I think may be part of the stuff I'm auctioning.

Zeb

  


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:41 am 
 

Paul and I were talking recently about trying to get the Tom Moldvay obit published that Dragon didn't pick up in the end.  It's a good piece, and worth getting in front of the fans.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:29 pm 
 

Thanks all for the feedback, it pretty much confirms what I was thinking. :)

zhowar wrote:D&D Fantasy Miniatures, 2005. A large scale fantasy miniatures battle in 25mm scale, based on the D&D rules. Elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins, humans and plenty of magic will abound. 8+ Hours. Judge: Tom Moldvay. Saturday Noon. Experience Level 3. 12 Players. Wyllie Main Place.


I actually did check the DF thread as well, but I was specifically looking for the title and not possible links to the rules.  Looking at these rules I would say that they are very likely tied to this Tournament if not the exact rules that would have been used for it.  The 1st copyright date on the booklet is 1980 which would pretty much coincide with that tournament.  Secondly and perhaps more importantly, just scanning over these rules, they are heavily influenced by and rooted in D&D dealing with spells, spell levels, character classes, etic.  It really looks as a hybrid of Chainmail rules intertwined with D&D rules.  Its actually pretty cool. :)  Aside form that looking these notes written in red pen, I am starting to think that are actually Tom Moldvay's own, becuase for the most part they are all either full new rules written in and added in the blank areas of the booklet and there are other rules simply modified.  These look as if they peened by the author modifying his own work,  Here is couple of picture of what I am talking about:

Image


Image




zhowar wrote:Is there an artist credited for the cover art?


Yes, the cover artist is listed Dave Billman, a name that I am not familiar with.  There is actually an additional piece of artwork by him on the inside of the back cover that is of a man fighting a Dragon that is very cool.  

FWIW, Here is how the book is fullt credited to see if anyone recognizes any of these names other than Tom Moldvay's as they appear in the booklet:

CREDITS

Design & Development:    Tom Moldvay

Artwork:   Dave Billman. Dru Woodward

Playtesters:   Chuck Baltes,  Charlene Britton, Dave Bullis, Neal Christanson, Brad Cihla, Don Dexter, Patrick Dougherty, Jim Fieldhouse, Ian Guistino, Tom Hanlon, Sean McGovern, James Morgan, Diane Peske, Bill Reuter, Ralph Wagner, Bill Wilkerson, Chris Wind, Jim Wind, Mike Wind.


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:57 pm 
 

There is a Dave Billman that has illustration credit on Avalon Hill's Lords of Creation.

http://www.pen-paper.net/rpgdb.php?op=s ... ookid=3915


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:15 pm 
 

The store is in Buffalo, and its called The Jester's Cap (named, pretty obviously, after the Magic: The Gathering card of the same name from the Ice Age expansion - yeah, I used to play, and then it got boring, fast.) They can be pretty expensive, and they can be pretty cheap, but what I like the most are the quarterly sales (since I collect pretty much every RPG, I can get lots of books for 75% off, or $1 each, depending on how long the store has had them.) Last time I was in there, which was a while, I snatched up a B10 and a 1st print of Eldritch Wizardry.

Very cool, bclarkie. If those are Tom's writings, then its much more interesting than it was before (which was pretty damn high already.) Anyone have any original writing to have a comparison ran? Might be worth it.


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:37 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:Anyway, to get to the point has anyone ever seen or heard of this rules set before?   I am thinking that I may have stumbled on something really interesting here, but I really have no clue where to go from here.


So, it had a Buy-It-Now price of $50.00, but there was also a "modest reserve"?  How does that work, and is it done a lot?

bonk!

  


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:52 pm 
 

My copy of this arrived today, and it's pretty cool :D


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:58 am 
 

grodog wrote:My copy of this arrived today, and it's pretty cool :D


Allan, were you did you find a copy?  :)


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Post Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:12 am 
 

I was at Gencon XIV and watched the minature battle.
It took place in a large area of the hall and was really amazing.

I may have a copy of this somewhere...it seems very familiar.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:16 am 
 

i just read the auction description "It pains me to part with it, so I put a modest reserve".
Translation:
"I loved the guy like a brother, but he's dead now, so I'm selling his stuff".


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:24 am 
 

I admit I am not that much of a collector, but that is very cool. I think you may have definatly found a wonderful treasure there. If not fromt eh collectors viewpoint from the historical aspect.

That is my passion the history of things. Good find.
Thanks for sharing especially the pics.


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:00 pm 
 

Sorry, missed this earlier, Brian:  

bclarkie wrote:Allan, were you did you find a copy?  :)


I got one from the same seller; he had one that wasn't in as nice a shape (had a coffee stain on some pages in the back), and didn't have the various annotations on it.


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:07 pm 
 

Hi folks---

I recently bought Brian's copy of Tom Moldvay's "Epic Battles" and wanted to get input on storing it:  the cover is at Image and it's basically an old-style photocopy/Kinko's printed booklet:  the kind where the ink will come off on plastic coverings when they get warm, wet, etc.

Any thoughts on how to store this would be very appreciated (the previous copy I bought was in worse shape than Brian's copy, and part of that was due to image transfer from the cover to some other surface, some time in the past).

Thanks :D


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