Large cache of early D&D unearthed
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:04 am 
 

I must be one of "those arrogant Americans who rewrite history" because I have yet to master the GMT thing. I only routinely correspond with a fellow in France and another in NZ, the rest in NA; I know how to add their differentials.

GMT - 05.00 is what my zone is.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:52 am 
 

faro wrote:([ed.] Rather than email all the pics to interested parties and/or have to handle individual requests, it might be possible to host them over here at The Acaeum on one of the user accounts.
Anyone? (Or Scott...?)
Just a thought :))


Some mail servers will reject very large files.  Even zipped they might not get through to everyone (which is not necessarily a bad thing :twisted:) .  If they can't be hosted here, or on tinypic/photobucket, I could host them.

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:28 pm 
 

If other folks don't have server space available, I can certainly host a zipped file that folks could then download from my web site.


Allan Grohe ([email protected])
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:53 pm 
 

Deities & Demigods        (IM001809)        144pg        1st Ed                                        Fine       
This has my name- as- owner on front page. This undoubtedly came out of the first carton opened in the office, as was the custom.
      
Dungeon Master's Guide  (IM001808)        1st. Ed.                                        VF
This is most likely the same provenance as above; same name-as-owner. Also has inside a white MONSTER MANUAL ERRATA SHEET (loose) with two creases at top.

Monster Manual  (IM001811)   2nd Ed.                                                         VF       
Monster Manual                         2nd Ed.                                                 F/FV
MMs were almost consumables from the way they got beat up at Con tourneys.

AD&D        Players Handbook (IM001810)        1st Ed.                                     FV/NM
This is my very first copy, from the first carton opened, with name-as-owner and date of 14 Aug '78 shows funny little bubbles in a strip across back where glue was not perfectly spread
              
White Box Tactical Studies Rules        (IM001813) No rips, cuts or tears on box, v. clean
               With Charts                                        M
                Men & Magic         1st Printing                        NM
               Monst. & Treas.  3rd Printing April 1975        M
               Under. & Wilder, 1st Printing                        M

White Box Tactical Studies Rules   (IM001814) Boxtop three torn corners, v. clean   ?
                Reference Sheets (5)                                F-VF
               Men & Magic  4th Print                          NM  tiny discolor on staples
               Monsters &...  4th Print                         NM                 "
                   Underworld...  4th print Near Mint                NM                "

Eldritch Wizardry        1st Print.                                 NM

Eldritch Wizardry        1st Print.                                 NM

Greyhawk                2nd Print July ‘75                        NM                "

Greyhawk                8th Print  Feb '78                        G-VG
       I think I "ended up with" this after a Con; mine probably got lifted/lost and this         was found, etc. Has initials DML on inner upper corner

Men & Magic         (IM001815)        3rd Print Apr. ‘75                NM
       This has a printer's smudge on cover.

Blackmoor                  1st Printing                                 NM                Tiny rust
       I am reasonably certain that this one was out of very first carton as symbol of my         first big completed project for TSR

Swords & Spells      1st Printing                                  NM
       This is another "first box" item

Empty Woodgrain box                                             F
       broken corner and duct-taped corner—this was my lug-it-everywhere box from         the really early days; it might  be the first one I bought at GenCon in ‘74

3 Sheets Orange/Yellow Game Charts        (File 005)        VF-NM

Do these have the additional information from Supplement I Greyhawk?
I think so. They are three ugly yellow/orange sheets. They are folded in half and stapled in one corner. Two are leaved together, the other by itself (stapled, just direction) . At the top they say (In order front to back) :Spells Table, Attacks and Damage by Monster Type (this is a double-wide chart), Defender's Armor Class, Damage Done by Weapon Type, Table III: 61-75, etc. The majority is charts and tables that I believe are what you are asking about. Misc. Magic, Wands & Staves, etc,

AD&D Permanent Character Folder & Adv. Records        '79        VF
               Purplish color, one creased corner,

Non-Player Character Records   ‘79                                VF
               Shades of blue cover, one long-ago crease on back

Character Archaic        1st Printing (pre-TSR)                                NM
               One sheet has one of my oldestPCs; , seven extra pgs (one has another                         OLD PC on it); loose extra back cover
               I am reasonably certain that this is the very first copy we saw, having been                 sent to Strategic Review for approval and review..It blew me away and I                         hung on to and used it.
               Does this have a Crunchy Frog advertisement in the back?
                Cosmic Frog? Yes. (IM001805)

Grey Pad        Character Records        (File0007)                        F
               Contains 24 sheets and has cardboard on back.
               I have no idea it how many sheets it once was.        
               Is the stock number F-1009 or 9014?
               No stock number; this is real early stuff, I think.. Says at the bottom:                                         Copyright 1977-TSR Hobbies, Inc.     big space    *T.M. REG. APP. FOR




Goldenrod Game Ref. Sheet         (File0008)        1976                        F
               Contains 18 sheets and has cardboard on back.
               I have no idea it how many sheets it once was.       

              


Orange Game Ref. Sheet                (File0006)        1975                G-VG
               Only six sheets and cardboard


Hex Pad                                (IM001792)                        G-VG?
               94 sheets, no cardboard. These damn things never stayed on the                                 cardboard

Outdoor Geomorphs          Shrink-wrapped                        NM-M



Monster & Treasure Ass't. Levels 1-9                                NM
               These have spent the last 20+ years clipped into a loose leaf binder

AD&D Character Ref. Sheets   2nd Ed.                                ???
               The cover shows staple holes, but the pages inside have none

AD&D Dungeon Masters Screen        1979                                VF
               Probably not even opened a dozen times.

Rogues Gallery                1980 1st Ed                                F-VF
               Hardly opened

D2          Shrine of the Kuo-Toa        1st Print        1978                VF
D3         Vault of the Drow                1st Print        1978                VF
S1           Tomb of Horrors "Deluxe Set" Original                        F-VF       
C1        Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan   "Deluxe" Original                F-VF               
G1        Steading of the Hill Giant Chief  shrink-wrapped                M
G1        Steading of the Hill Giant Chief                                  F-VF
G2        Glacial Rift…Jarl                                                F-VF
G3        Hall of the Fire Giant King                                        F-VF
                                      
THE STATEGIC REVIEW         Complete Set                Never folded, never mailed
                               #s  2(2 ea), 4(2 ea), 6(2 ea),
Dragon Magazine:        20, 22, 33(X2) 73, 74, 76, 79,                 Varies mostly VG-F
Dragontales                                                                NM
Best of the Dragon                 Vol.s 1 & 2        1st Prints                NM
The Fineous Treasury                                        Withdrawn
Little Wars        #s7, 11 &12    Never mailed                                VG-F



I will send a Word file to any that ask; this board ruined my beuatiful document.

Look it over. How do you want your pics, raw, Zipped or RAR'd? I also can use PANDO.

If I find a spot to host them, I will let you know ASAP

Tim


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:04 pm 
 

Kaskoid wrote:Does this have a Crunchy Frog advertisement in the back?

:lol:  Who asked that?


This is going to be fun without lot numbers. :)

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:09 pm 
 

I won't disclose any info that a buyer or inquirer asks for/about that said person does not want released.

As to lots; Use the WORD file and place your bids in color in the listing you want.

All bids must be for single items. Three books in a box with charts is one item, as an example.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:30 pm 
 

So where are the auctions? Is there going to be a link? Is this an eBay thing?


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:02 pm 
 

Kaskoid wrote:I won't disclose any info that a buyer or inquirer asks for/about that said person does not want released.

I wasn't actually asking ;)
Just that "Crunchy Frog" got a laugh! :D

(Besides, I'd already asked whether it was a first print (via PM) and you confirmed on the board. Thanks :))

As to lots; Use the WORD file and place your bids in color in the listing you want.

Should be easy enough! Enjoy, y'all :)

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:10 pm 
 

mbassoc2003--

Highest bid received by 7:30, In my Inbox when I hit Send/Receive. is only one considered. No high bid guaranteed to win item in the event that I think I might do significantly better based on advice so many of you have been kind enough to share with me. No Second Chance Offers; it goes on e-Bay.


I will accept PayPal if you add 2%; I'll eat some of their charge, too. Money Orders (or bank transfers if you're into that sort of thing, or capable of it, LOL) are the other means of payment. If MO, I will give you ample time for it to get hereafter we make confirming contact. If it fails to arrive, 5 days after reasonable expectations of arrival, it goes on e-Bay.


faro---I thought it might be a verification test.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:24 pm 
 

I am getting back e-mails that I am trying to send several of you with the pics and annotated list. I've gotten so many I can't remember...

I Zipped it wrong the first time; failed my saving throw vs. Brainfart.

If you have asked, but not received, e-mail me directly  at
[email protected]


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 1:28 am 
 

Scott has graciously agreed to host the pics. My thanks


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:00 am 
 

Picture links added to the first post in this thread.

Foul

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:55 am 
 

Great.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:02 am 
 

Thank you, Scott. Just in time, too! :)

===

Just like to point out, that if the following is http://www.acaeum.com/images/WhiteBox2.jpg , I'd recommend annulling any bids on that, Tim.

Kaskoid wrote:White Box Tactical Studies Rules        (IM001813) No rips, cuts or tears on box, v. clean
               With Charts                                        M
                Men & Magic         1st Printing                        NM
               Monst. & Treas.  3rd Printing April 1975        M
               Under. & Wilder, 1st Printing                        M

That is one strange chimaera!

The M&T appears to be a 3rd, judging by the guillotining, but the others are 5th+ not 1st (sorry :(): M&M doesn't appear to be a 7th and U&WA's relative color looks more like a 5th, although it could be one of the 6ths.

Tim; from a dollar perspective, I'd strongly recommend swapping the two white boxes around so that the best box would go with the 4th print books and what appears to be the 4th print ref sheets (partly hidden).
As it is, you've got the good books in the poor box and the mishmash remainder books in the good box.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:18 am 
 

faro wrote:Thank you, Scott. Just in time, too! :)

===

Just like to point out, that if the following is http://www.acaeum.com/images/WhiteBox2.jpg , I'd recommend annulling any bids on that, Tim.

Kaskoid wrote:White Box Tactical Studies Rules        (IM001813) No rips, cuts or tears on box, v. clean
               With Charts                                        M
                Men & Magic         1st Printing                        NM
               Monst. & Treas.  3rd Printing April 1975        M
               Under. & Wilder, 1st Printing                        M

That is one strange chimaera!

The M&T appears to be a 3rd, judging by the guillotining, but the others are 5th+ not 1st (sorry :(): M&M doesn't appear to be a 7th and U&WA's relative color looks more like a 5th, although it could be one of the 6ths.

Tim; from a dollar perspective, I'd strongly recommend swapping the two white boxes around so that the best box would go with the 4th print books and what appears to be the 4th print ref sheets (partly hidden).
As it is, you've got the good books in the poor box and the mishmash remainder books in the good box.


you really need to get out more :)

good researching that!

Al



  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:56 am 
 

While I know that you guys have spent hours at this, what says that they are not what I think they are? And I stress the word Think...

There are NO markings inside like there are with every other print run I have seen. You really should not put too much empirical weight on or credence in such things as ink shade or cutting on a cover. If there were covers left over from a previous run that were the same art-wise, they were used up first on the nexrt run. Every run of the small books I ever saw had miscuts and minor color variations. If there were unused folios (large sheets printed, folded and cut into smaller ones) that did not contain errata, they were used first. Any printer will tell you that when they set out to produce/sell a given number of folios and covers, they plan to produce a number that exceeds the number ordered. This allows for press errors, cutter errors, collating and binding errors and the like.
They were produced by a great guy that owned a small printing shop in Lake Geneva that became inadequate for our needs. Of course he used up old stock before producing new.

If you can emperically prove me wrong, I'll acknowledge my errors of ignorance graciously; otherwise, rusty though they may be, I'll stick by my rememberings, and write provenance based on it.


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:12 am 
 

Kaskoid wrote:While I know that you guys have spent hours at this, what says that they are not what I think they are? And I stress the word Think...

I know what you mean; from experience, goalposts keep moving in this research, too! :)

Kaskoid wrote:If there were covers left over from a previous run that were the same art-wise, they were used up first on the nexrt run. Every run of the small books I ever saw had miscuts and minor color variations.

Yes, that applies even to the runs within the first print (not a cohesive "1,000 copies" as currently stated).

Kaskoid wrote:If there were unused folios (large sheets printed, folded and cut into smaller ones) that did not contain errata, they were used first. Any printer will tell you that when they set out to produce/sell a given number of folios and covers, they plan to produce a number that exceeds the number ordered. This allows for press errors, cutter errors, collating and binding errors and the like.
They were produced by a great guy that owned a small printing shop in Lake Geneva that became inadequate for our needs. Of course he used up old stock before producing new.

Yep. And that's caused no end of fun, research-wise (e.g. with the variant - actually relatively common - 1st print U&WA with "2nd print" cover).

The obvious "problem" with those second white box books is that the covers for M&M and U&WA are far too new to be Lake Geneva (1/2) or even Heritage Model prints (3), so I wouldn't have expected the "original" 1st print text block to be contained within.

Quick check, please:
M&M - stock list on back page: how many items priced and list the first few.
U&WA - sketchy or redrawn dungeon map on page 4 (compare with that other 4th print you have)

=
Apologies if that's slightly rushed, Tim, but there's a deadline to meet. Know that feeling? :)

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:51 am 
 

M&M - stock list on back page: how many items priced and list the first few.


Duh... my face matches this ink. Of course it couldn't be 1st with reference to Dragon... My bad.


U&WA - sketchy or redrawn dungeon map on page 4 (compare with that other 4th print you have)


Neat, clean drawing, much neater than other one.


Tim; from a dollar perspective, I'd strongly recommend swapping the two white boxes around so that the best box would go with the 4th print books and what appears to be the 4th print ref sheets (partly hidden).
As it is, you've got the good books in the poor box and the mishmash remainder books in the good box.


Will swap boxes, but why? Isn't the nice quality box with the thoroughbred set a better piece? I'm SOOO confused....

I can sell the "mish-mash" books singly if the box is trash. or throw in the old woodgrain.


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:35 am 
 

Kaskoid wrote:
M&M - stock list on back page: how many items priced and list the first few.

Duh... my face matches this ink. Of course it couldn't be 1st with reference to Dragon... My bad.

Heh, heh... :oops:

No probs, Tim. Just so long as that's resolved and everyone's happy with the final outcome.

Kaskoid wrote:
U&WA - sketchy or redrawn dungeon map on page 4 (compare with that other 4th print you have)

Neat, clean drawing, much neater than other one.

Good. That's one of the areas that was reworked for the 5th & subsequent prints.

To determine 5th/(6th/7th), try:
M&M stock list: 5th ends with Character Archaic and Complete Catalog; 6th ends with Dragon and Complete Catalog; 7th ends with Percentile Dice and Dragon.
U&WA page 14: 5th, pic titled Nazgul; 6th/7th, untitled. From the color on the cover, if it's a 6th/7th my money's with 6th.

(more to follow...)

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:53 am 
 

Kaskoid wrote:
Tim; from a dollar perspective, I'd strongly recommend swapping the two white boxes around so that the best box would go with the 4th print books and what appears to be the 4th print ref sheets (partly hidden).
As it is, you've got the good books in the poor box and the mishmash remainder books in the good box.


[color=green]Will swap boxes, but why? Isn't the nice quality box with the thoroughbred set a better piece? I'm SOOO confused....


Yes, which is why swapping would be better, IMHO!

(It's not a hard-and-fast science but...)



At present you have

1) http://www.acaeum.com/images/WhiteBox1.jpg

poor non-OCE box, books 4,4,4 & ref sheets 4 (apparently, but need to check they're complete)

2) http://www.acaeum.com/images/WhiteBox2.jpg

crisp non-OCE box, books 6?,3,5/6? & late ref sheets



The 4th prints in a poor box might sell for $100-120 (I was picking them up for $75 a couple of years ago).

The 4th prints in a crisp non-OCE box are another matter altogether.

Burnie Bros just sold a not-quite-so-good set for $306 ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 8783855566 ) and although I think that was *way* over the odds, the box condition is clearly what made the difference. I'd love a set like that, but I'm not going to pay that much and it's only fair you should pick up the $.



Best box with the matching set is the way to go, IMO.

(Even if it's a slightly later non-OCE box, I'm probably the only person who might query that and anyhow - as you point out and I've observed - there was a serious amount of mix-and-matching going on; both at the printing and collating stages as stock was required/became available).



At present, box 2 is only interesting for the box: the three mixed volumes are of relatively little value.

  
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