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Post Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:01 am 
 

Occasionally, when I see Conan stuff up i.e:



http://cgi.ebay.com/Conan-RPG-lot-made- ... dZViewItem



I wonder whether it is worth picking up.  Does anyone else have this stuff?  I am a REH fan (although not as much as some here  :wink: ) so am always tempted.  Yet, I have found that all too often that direct cross-over games like these are to be avoided like a big wet curly turd on the pavement (sidewalk).  :?:


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:54 am 
 

red_bus wrote:Occasionally, when I see Conan stuff up i.e:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Conan-RPG-lot-made- ... dZViewItem

I wonder whether it is worth picking up.  Does anyone else have this stuff?  I am a REH fan (although not as much as some here  :wink: ) so am always tempted.  Yet, I have found that all too often that direct cross-over games like these are to be avoided like a big wet curly turd on the pavement (sidewalk).  :?:




i've got a few conan bits lying around and i enjoy them as a good read. dunno if they are worth that much tho personally, but then i guess, it depends how much you want them. they mods crop up quite regular and you can normally snap em up for a few $.



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Post Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:27 pm 
 

I own the TSR Conan and frankly I dont think it is that great an item.  And as killjoy stated, it really doesnt garner that much.  Dont know anything about the GURPS version of Conan but I have a friend that has the Mongoose edition of the game and swears by it.  I did a quick search on Ebay and it looks like Mongoose has put out quite a bit of stuff for the game.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:48 pm 
 

Conan #2, the one with The Frost Giant's Daughter, is my favorite.  I can't get into the gaming stuff, though.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:41 am 
 

I'd save your money.  The TSR Conan stuff isn't that good.  The map in the boxed-set is nice, but it ends there as TSR sold it short.  If you want something good that's Conan oriented, I recommend the following:

Image

It breaks down many of the principalities in Hyborea, providing nice descriptions for each.  It even has a magic section.  RA can get pricey though.  Bookstores want a c-note for it.  I'd wait for eBay.

It's too bad that there are not more Conan-related games out there.  I like Howard's world better than Tolkien's.  Is there a site that catalogues Conan games?

Speaking of Howard, have you finished your Xmas present yet btb?


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:30 am 
 

tfm wrote:I like Howard's world better than Tolkien's.  Is there a site that catalogues Conan games?


I gotta ask.  What is it about the world of Robert E. Howard's Conan do you prefer over Tolkien's Middle-Earth?  Just curious....as I really dig Conan but I myself prefer Middle-Earth.

As far as Conan game catalogs go, here is the link to Mongoose Publishing's Conan stuff:  http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/ ... qsSeries=7

Here is the link to Waynes World of Books:  He has lists of most games.  http://www.waynesbooks.com/Conan.html

And here is a site that has all sorts of neat stuff regarding Conan role-playing: http://hyboria.xoth.net/index.htm

  

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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:43 am 
 

While we're on the Conan kick I figured I would get some opinions on an item we have. It is a manuscript by Tom Wham for The Exotic Enchanter novel by L. Sprague de Camp and Christopher Stasheff. It is titled "Harold Sheakspeare" and is hand edited by L. Sprague de Camp himself 8O  Anyone interested or have an idea of the true value?

  

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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:52 am 
 

burntwire brothers wrote:While we're on the Conan kick I figured I would get some opinions on an item we have. It is a manuscript by Tom Wham for The Exotic Enchanter novel by L. Sprague de Camp and Christopher Stasheff. It is titled "Harold Sheakspeare" and is hand edited by L. Sprague de Camp himself 8O  Anyone interested or have an idea of the true value?


cool item! i think most ppl into the conan novels and that area of fantasy would love to have that manuscript - i would. no idea on its value tho.

nice!

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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:55 am 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
tfm wrote:I like Howard's world better than Tolkien's.  Is there a site that catalogues Conan games?


I gotta ask.  What is it about the world of Robert E. Howard's Conan do you prefer over Tolkien's Middle-Earth?  Just curious....as I really dig Conan but I myself prefer Middle-Earth.

As far as Conan game catalogs go, here is the link to Mongoose Publishing's Conan stuff:  http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/ ... qsSeries=7

Here is the link to Waynes World of Books:  He has lists of most games.  http://www.waynesbooks.com/Conan.html

And here is a site that has all sorts of neat stuff regarding Conan role-playing: http://hyboria.xoth.net/index.htm


i have been reading conan novels and LOTR since i was a kid and whilst i love them both very much, i do like conan more.

i always liked the raw descriptive of the 70s fantasy novels, and have tons of them. back in the 30s when REH first scripted his conan stories, having been edited at a later time and then published in novels, i found them fascinating. the fantasy contained therein, felt far more believable to me, as it didnt have orcs and trolls etc in it. i guess thats what swung it in the end.

tho i do have to say, when King Theoden died on the Pelennor Fields, i was devastated :)

Al



  


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:53 pm 
 

I think the part that bothers me about Tolkien is the presence of too many superheroes, which is why I like the Hobbit better than the LOTR.  The elves in Tolkien are like a race of superheroes, and as long as the elves are in Middle Earth, there will be goodness and justice and light.  There is none of that in Howard.  Conan carries the code of the noble savage.  Cities in Howard--in fact, the very idea of civilization--are ugly.  Case in point, the end of "The Black Stanger," when Conan tells the young girl:

"Now in my country sometimes there are famines; but people are hungry only when there's no food in the land at all.  But in civilized countries I've seen people sick of gluttony while others were starving.  Aye, I've seen men fall and die of hunger against the walls of shops and storehouses crammed with food."

It's a human statement.  What Conan says can be uttered in any country on earth today.  Tolkien does spinkle his with work with wisdom too, but not to the same degree.  My favorite Tolkien bit occurs when Merry and Pippin first encounter Treebeard and they ready to leave the 'hill':

"Treebeard repeated the words thoughtfully.  'Hill.  Yes that was it.  But it is a hasty word for a thing that has stood here ever since this part of the world was shaped.'"

This is good stuff.  It's a shame there isn't more of it.

The other thing that stands out for me is Howard's depth of imagination.  The reader is never sure what the enemy is going to look like.  It could be a human, a beast, a Cthonian or a god (Howard and Lovecraft did know one another.  I would put Lovecraft's "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath" against anything), or something completely different.   The enemy in Tolkien is largely based on appearance, and therefore predictable.  Every orc, warg, or goblin is deserving of death because of what it is, like wolves and coyotes and snakes in the old west.  Not terribly clever.  With the Hobbit, at least, there is a growth taking place in Bilbo, which makes it a human story.  The LOTR doesn't really do that because it's about friendship.  Sam is easily my favorite character in the books, Boromir in the movie.

Everything is in the eye of the beholder anyway.  Some lady who sells her son's old D&D game for a hundred dollars laughs all the way to the bank, thinking the buyer an idiot, while the person who bought it relishes over the brown box with a horse on the cover.


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:31 pm 
 

Unfortunately, the Conan paperbacks have become a laughingstock. If you read any of the relatively recent ones, he's practically a fukin sage. No barbaric speaking for him anymore, now it's "We should assay ourselves to the tavern. I have been yearning for a mug of ale." instead of "By Crom, I need a drink!". They have also generally fallen into the evil sorcerer/warrior slut/save the world syndrome.


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:54 pm 
 

Unfortunately I only know Conan from the movies ( :roll: ) and the Savage Sword of Conan magazine.  I am currently reading the Conan comic put out by Dark Horse publishing and it is excellent.

So if I wanted to delve into the mythos of Conan further, what do you recommend?  Stick with just the Howard books?  Are the Robert Jordan titles worth picking up?  Are there any particular titles that are better than others?

  


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:59 pm 
 

I recommend The Conan Chronicles Vols. 1 & 2, published by Gollancz, which will give you all of Howard's Conan stories in an order that moves from young man to king.  I sent a set to btb for Christmas and he's enjoying them very much.  Do not go to eBay for them unless you want to pay double or triple.  Try Amazon UK.  That's where I got mine.

I have not read any of the Conan stories by writers other than Howard.  It's a choice on my part.  I'm usually disappointed when someone tries to copy an artist rather than create their own, but the Acaeum has featured that discussion before and so I won't go there again.

"The Hour of the Dragon," the last story in Vol.2, is my favorite.  I love the part where the priests of Khitai wielding staffs cut from the living Tree of Death pursue Conan into the Black Pyramid in Khemi and mix it up with the temple priests wielding The Black Hand of Set. It's perfect.

Start at the beginning with "The Tower of the Elephant" and you won't be disappointed.  There really isn't a stinker in the whole bunch.  You can tell that several of the early writers for D&D read Howard's Conan.  The early stuff has the feel of Howard.  It's a great ride.


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:17 pm 
 

tfm wrote:I recommend The Conan Chronicles Vols. 1 & 2, published by Gollancz, which will give you all of Howard's Conan stories in an order that moves from young man to king.  I sent a set to btb for Christmas and he's enjoying them very much.


That's true!  They are a fantastic read!  Unfortunately, life forces me to read very slowly and I have just started The People of the Black Circle (about pg. 376).  

While this may seem quite pathetic considering I received them a few weeks before Christmas, keep in mind I work all night and then play Mr. Mom all day.  My "awake" time concludes with me cooking dinner and geting it ready in time for my wife to get home from work, then we eat, clean up and I catch 5 hours sleep before going to work again!  Plus all my ebay work . . . so, I'm lucky to be able to devote a few half-hour lunch breaks to reading in any given week . . .  :D

But I'm closing in on finishing Volume 1 and I can't say enough good things about it.


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:19 pm 
 

Does it start with "The Thing in the Crypt"? That would be one of the first. Can't remember offhand if that or Frost Giant's Daughter was first.


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:10 pm 
 

Well, that's a can of worms.  Check this out:

http://www.rehupa.com/rippke_chronology.htm

The first published Conan story is The Phoenix and the Sword, but that's a different question from which story has the youngest Conan.  Howard didn't write them in chronological order.  I'm guessing that "The Thing in the Crypt" is a pastiche, not solely written by Howard.  It's not in the Fantasy Masterworks or in the DS chronology.  I'll dig into it later when I have a chance.


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Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:44 am 
 

tfm wrote:I recommend The Conan Chronicles Vols. 1 & 2, published by Gollancz, which will give you all of Howard's Conan stories in an order that moves from young man to king.  I sent a set to btb for Christmas and he's enjoying them very much.  Do not go to eBay for them unless you want to pay double or triple.  Try Amazon UK.  That's where I got mine.


i was just going to recommend these too as they cover the majority of all the older conan stories which are easily the best.

i also agree with DL too in relation to the newer ones....somehow, they have veered away from what conan was imo. the pulp element of the stories was always better by far.

the story i enjoyed the most was "Red Nails" - i go back to that one time after time and read it again. to me, it is pure adventure and immensely enjoyable.

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Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:03 am 
 

tfm wrote:I'm guessing that "The Thing in the Crypt" is a pastiche, not solely written by Howard.

No question about it — it's a DeCamp and Carter story, not a Howard story. Bleh. Double-bleh.

tfm wrote:The first published Conan story is The Phoenix and the Sword, but that's a different question from which story has the youngest Conan.

The youngest Conan in a Howard story appears to be the one in "The Tower of the Elephant" ... no, wait, it's the one from "The Frost-Giant's Daughter" ... no, wait ... "The God in the Bowl."

We could fill thread after thread with this debate — and it's an unwinnable argument. Serious Howard scholars can't even agree amongst themselves on the topic.

tfm wrote:"The Hour of the Dragon," the last story in Vol.2, is my favorite.  ... Start at the beginning with "The Tower of the Elephant" and you won't be disappointed.

Both excellent choices. I'll add a darkhorse to the list: "The Black Stranger." A truly excellent story, absolutely butchered by the utterly ham-fisted DeCamp in his "Treasure of Tranicos" pastiche. Unfortunately, the Tranicos version was the only one available (without some serious digging) for many, many years, which is just a crime against all that is holy. However, the real "Black Stranger" is finally available to the mass market; it's in three different anthologies that I know of; none are at all difficult to find.

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Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:46 pm 
 

Thanks everyone for all the great recommendations.  I will have to peruse a few Half-Price Book stores this weekend and see what I can find.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:33 pm 
 

Even though the DS chronology places "The Frost Giant's Daughter" first, I like the Fantasy Masterworks placement better for readability, starting with "The Tower of the Elephant," then "The God in the Bowl," then "TFGD."  "TTOTE" introduces Conan as a young thief, but not a wise one.  He learns from Taurus of Nemedia.  It's a nice beginning.

For those of you interested in reading Conan, please read Howard's vision first.  He's the genesis and the genius of Conan.


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