RD1 - Ruby Dragon
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:08 pm 
 

I'm talking to Alan right now maybe we can work something out NTRPG con related...

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:19 pm 
 

Hi Alan,

Nice to see you found your way here.  Here are some pictures of the originals:

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:25 pm 
 

Mars,

Thanks for posting those ..

The poster was made by one of the players during the last WARZONE convention here in Florida. I want to thank all the "TailGunners" that stuck with me through the years play testing RD1 > RD5, in their home groups and at con's. Honestly, I just came up with the idea; They made it work !

Fore front is the last 2 Copies I own, both of which I am taking to a professional to get cleaned (I was a smoker for most of my life ..damage done). I am keeping my copy, and since Mars was the one that tracked me down, the other original is his first.

The red folders in the back is RD2 > RD5.

As far as reprinting, depending on cost I might do a very limited 2nd printing (less then 20 copies), and these will be noted 2nd prints.  After which I am thinking on working with the Texas Con and their archiving project.

RD2 > RD5 .. I have a full time business, so attempting to format and produce these might be a VERY slow process.

Thank you all so much for your interest, The little boy with a red box and crayon colored dice is ecstatic.
Alan


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:48 pm 
 

N.AlanPatterson wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:Mars,

Thanks for posting those ..

The poster was made by one of the players during the last WARZONE convention here in Florida. I want to thank all the "TailGunners" that stuck with me through the years play testing RD1 > RD5, in their home groups and at con's. Honestly, I just came up with the idea; They made it work !

Fore front is the last 2 Copies I own, both of which I am taking to a professional to get cleaned (I was a smoker for most of my life ..damage done). I am keeping my copy, and since Mars was the one that tracked me down, the other original is his first.

The red folders in the back is RD2 > RD5.

As far as reprinting, depending on cost I might do a very limited 2nd printing (less then 20 copies), and these will be noted 2nd prints.  After which I am thinking on working with the Texas Con and their archiving project.

RD2 > RD5 .. I have a full time business, so attempting to format and produce these might be a VERY slow process.

Thank you all so much for your interest, The little boy with a red box and crayon colored dice is ecstatic.
Alan


Just waiting to hear from Doug, should be something we can do. Thanks Alan!  Glad you found your way here.  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:47 pm 
 

A NTRPGCon republished copy would be a good idea. IMO they have good experience of reformatting works, cleaning up digital images for reprinting, and have a proven track record of putting out good quality product. My only issue with NTRPGCon is the near impossibility for buyers in other countries who cannot attend the con, to but their publications at reasonable prices. Most buyers seem to be proffiteering on the back of limited print runs. So non-attendees are distinctly disadvantaged. So if you want to support the con' then it does that, but it doesnt really support the collecting community at large in that sense.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:02 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:A NTRPGCon republished copy would be a good idea. IMO they have good experience of reformatting works, cleaning up digital images for reprinting, and have a proven track record of putting out good quality product. My only issue with NTRPGCon is the near impossibility for buyers in other countries who cannot attend the con, to but their publications at reasonable prices. Most buyers seem to be proffiteering on the back of limited print runs. So non-attendees are distinctly disadvantaged. So if you want to support the con' then it does that, but it doesnt really support the collecting community at large in that sense.


Ian I would disagree. Nothing on RPG marketplace con related is offered more than convention price as long as its not a private seller.  This year after the con we had every con item in stock for the same price, as well as last years leftovers, for at least a months time. Now, the window of purchasing may be limited but that is up to Doug.  We have not sold out of any con release at the con since NTRPG con 3.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:18 pm 
 

I do hope that international collectors could get one for the same price as during the Con. But considering a print run of 20.... I am not sure it will be possible to get one after the Con in this case.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:46 am 
 

Badmike wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:
mbassoc2003 wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:A NTRPGCon republished copy would be a good idea. IMO they have good experience of reformatting works, cleaning up digital images for reprinting, and have a proven track record of putting out good quality product. My only issue with NTRPGCon is the near impossibility for buyers in other countries who cannot attend the con, to but their publications at reasonable prices. Most buyers seem to be proffiteering on the back of limited print runs. So non-attendees are distinctly disadvantaged. So if you want to support the con' then it does that, but it doesnt really support the collecting community at large in that sense.


Ian I would disagree. Nothing on RPG marketplace con related is offered more than convention price as long as its not a private seller.  This year after the con we had every con item in stock for the same price, as well as last years leftovers, for at least a months time. Now, the window of purchasing may be limited but that is up to Doug.  We have not sold out of any con release at the con since NTRPG con 3.

Mike b


As Geraud said, with 20 copies limited print, nobody out of the con would be able to have these modules... I'd do the other way round: why dont you ask here how many ppl would be interested in such a copy and ask for funding the 2nd printing... i think that everyone here would be happy to finance this project. I'd be in for sure... if you want support on this kind of activity i'd reccomend to get in touch with Rob Pinnell (thork here) who is doing this way since long time.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:38 am 
 

N.AlanPatterson wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:As far as reprinting, depending on cost I might do a very limited 2nd printing (less then 20 copies), and these will be noted 2nd prints.  After which I am thinking on working with the Texas Con and their archiving project.


I think the proposal is to do a limited reprint now (that will be enough copies for everyone here) and allow NTRPG to reprint it later for con goers as well.

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:43 am 
 

aia wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:As Geraud said, with 20 copies limited print, nobody out of the con would be able to have these modules...


This is a good point and I agree that 20 is a low number.  However, considering that there's apparently a lot of editing work to be done...

N.AlanPatterson wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:I never compiled and printed the rest of the series, even though I still have them here in raw typed form RD2 - RD5.


And he is obviously worried about his time which is completely reasonable...

N.AlanPatterson wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:RD2 > RD5 .. I have a full time business, so attempting to format and produce these might be a VERY slow process.


It just seems to me that instead of doing a 20 print (2nd print) reprint and then creating NTX (or some other) reprints, that it might serve everyone all around to have the next reprint done by a professional module printing organization like Blackblade (grodog) on behalf of NTX for example.  This solves, or partially solves, several major problems.  It means less work for Mr. Patterson, it means simplifying the reprint process, and it means that everyone can get a copy at the same time and probably sooner.  Of course, whatever company works on the project of taking Mr. Patterson's rough draft notes, would have to work back and forth with him to make sure his original intentions and plans are agreeable.

That being said, Alan, I apologize for assuming that this is a democratic topic because obviously you get to do whatever you want with your creation.  However, I hope you see how interested we all are in what you created, and we hope you will be open to assistance for your sake and ours.  As someone on these forums who helps coordinate projects from time to time, these things always take more time and energy than expected.  Trusting someone else with your creation can be hard, but I hope you will consider it.   8)


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:12 am 
 

I agree and disagree.

If you are gearing a product for the collector's market then probably a reprint of the original is preferred but if you are looking to sell it to an audience geared more to using the product then you would need something more polished.  RD1 is basically a ready to go product but I'm guessing the original files used to create it are gone and will need to be recreated.  So, you can do some basic reformatting and maybe bring the page count down a bit.

From what I gather, RD2-5 will need a fair bit of work and maybe a lot of it needs to be done by the author before it gets to a stage where others can help with editing and layout etc.  Its tough to figure out what to do with that much material as well (I'm having the same problem with a couple other projects) - a series of 5 modules or a compilation hardcover?  RD1 is 38 pages I believe so maybe all of it together will be 150+ pages.  Realistically, thinking of rate that Pacesetter and Pinnell produce items, this is years of work that ends up being more a labour of love rather than a profitable commercial enterprise.

As for numbers, there are still 20 copies of the Clegg items left on RPGmarketplace out of 100 with many people buying multiple copies and a number of them already resold on Ebay.  20-25 copies seems like a reasonable estimate.  This is roughly the range that RC has printed up for a number of his printed releases here so I think its a good guess.  Of course, taking pre-orders to get an exact count works well too.

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:54 am 
 

Mars wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:
N.AlanPatterson wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:As far as reprinting, depending on cost I might do a very limited 2nd printing (less then 20 copies), and these will be noted 2nd prints.  After which I am thinking on working with the Texas Con and their archiving project.


I think the proposal is to do a limited reprint now (that will be enough copies for everyone here) and allow NTRPG to reprint it later for con goers as well.



Without coordinating with Mark or Alan or Doug, that sounds about right.  The con would never support such a limited print run (we have to do a minimum of 50 to even think about breaking even on printing costs).  Also we would have to re-format the item to digest sized or some other format, plus conversion. I think what Mars is proposing is an exact facsimile based on the orignal adventure, in a limited POD.

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:01 am 
 

Mars wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:I agree and disagree.

If you are gearing a product for the collector's market then probably a reprint of the original is preferred but if you are looking to sell it to an audience geared more to using the product then you would need something more polished.  RD1 is basically a ready to go product but I'm guessing the original files used to create it are gone and will need to be recreated.  So, you can do some basic reformatting and maybe bring the page count down a bit.

From what I gather, RD2-5 will need a fair bit of work and maybe a lot of it needs to be done by the author before it gets to a stage where others can help with editing and layout etc.  Its tough to figure out what to do with that much material as well (I'm having the same problem with a couple other projects) - a series of 5 modules or a compilation hardcover?  RD1 is 38 pages I believe so maybe all of it together will be 150+ pages.  Realistically, thinking of rate that Pacesetter and Pinnell produce items, this is years of work that ends up being more a labour of love rather than a profitable commercial enterprise.

As for numbers, there are still 20 copies of the Clegg items left on RPGmarketplace out of 100 with many people buying multiple copies and a number of them already resold on Ebay.  20-25 copies seems like a reasonable estimate.  This is roughly the range that RC has printed up for a number of his printed releases here so I think its a good guess.  Of course, taking pre-orders to get an exact count works well too.


Mars and i don't agree on a lot of things but he is spot on here.  First, 20 copies is plenty if you limit it to one per person (also eliminate speculators).  The Clegg items probably only sold to 40 unique buyers in total (many bought multiple copies), I think Ruby Dragon would bring in far less.  That's why pre-orders would be important.

I would be against getting "established" companies involved. Bill and Pacesetter have plenty on their plates already.  Black Blade hasn't published anything new in several years.  RC has his own items that he does a great job on.  As Mars said this wouldn't be a money making venture so it would be tough to get outside companies involved, it would be a labor of love. I was volunteering to Alan to do a conversion to S&W or Labyrinth Lord myself for con publication, and I'm not getting paid. I can't see a professional taking this amount of time to do this, and I wouldn't ask.

And this just applies to RD1.  The rest of the RD series would require a lot of work I suspect.  If Mars/Alan ever get those in printable form the NTRPG con would be interested in looking at it, but that seems far off in the future, myself I'm only concentrating on RD1 for the present.

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:03 pm 
 

Dispite my apparent inability to secure the more interesting products from NTRPGCon over the years, in regard to a direct repring facsimile if the original, I'm with Badmike and NTRPGCon. They have an established process that produces a good quality product at a very reasonable price. I only ask that they do not limit access for foreign buyers, either before or after the Con', as without access to the most desireable products, the process takes on a visage of a small inhouse clique proffiteering at the expence of others.

Why not reprint ad infinitum with no distinction between print runs?
Or would that ruin the investment and resale values for the lucky few?

Good products, but at the moment limited to those with the capacity to proffiteer off of the collectors who want to buy these products.
Let's hope they find a more even distribution mechanism as Acaeum is an international community and the most desireable of these products do not appear to be available to international buyers unless you want to spend $80-$200 on eBay.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:47 pm 
 

If you post a pre-order list for reprints I'd certainly like to get a copy (or if you are using this thread for pre-orders please put me down for a copy)

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:52 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:Dispite my apparent inability to secure the more interesting products from NTRPGCon over the years, in regard to a direct repring facsimile if the original, I'm with Badmike and NTRPGCon. They have an established process that produces a good quality product at a very reasonable price. I only ask that they do not limit access for foreign buyers, either before or after the Con', as without access to the most desireable products, the process takes on a visage of a small inhouse clique proffiteering at the expence of others.

Why not reprint ad infinitum with no distinction between print runs?
Or would that ruin the investment and resale values for the lucky few?

Good products, but at the moment limited to those with the capacity to proffiteer off of the collectors who want to buy these products.
Let's hope they find a more even distribution mechanism as Acaeum is an international community and the most desireable of these products do not appear to be available to international buyers unless you want to spend $80-$200 on eBay.


It's a two-sided blade in regards to printing something like this.

If you tell everyone you are printing a lot of them and not limiting the print runs, you will sell far, far less. I know this personally. Especially with collectors who decide at that point they aren't in any rush to purchase since the amount is unlimited, they put off buying your product in favor of something that has a limited (either time limit or amount) release.

As for the NTRPG Con items, I just saw that Doug has the nearly full roster of the last two years of releases up on RPG Marketplace...and we ship internationally.  But we don't apologize for offering con attendees first come, first served in regards to con publications...the entire point is an enticement for someone to attend the con and get access to exclusive items first.  A thank-you to those who support the convention.  If they sell out at the con, so be it.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:39 pm 
 

Badmike wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:
Mars wrote in RD1 - Ruby Dragon:I agree and disagree.

If you are gearing a product for the collector's market then probably a reprint of the original is preferred but if you are looking to sell it to an audience geared more to using the product then you would need something more polished.  RD1 is basically a ready to go product but I'm guessing the original files used to create it are gone and will need to be recreated.  So, you can do some basic reformatting and maybe bring the page count down a bit.

From what I gather, RD2-5 will need a fair bit of work and maybe a lot of it needs to be done by the author before it gets to a stage where others can help with editing and layout etc.  Its tough to figure out what to do with that much material as well (I'm having the same problem with a couple other projects) - a series of 5 modules or a compilation hardcover?  RD1 is 38 pages I believe so maybe all of it together will be 150+ pages.  Realistically, thinking of rate that Pacesetter and Pinnell produce items, this is years of work that ends up being more a labour of love rather than a profitable commercial enterprise.

As for numbers, there are still 20 copies of the Clegg items left on RPGmarketplace out of 100 with many people buying multiple copies and a number of them already resold on Ebay.  20-25 copies seems like a reasonable estimate.  This is roughly the range that RC has printed up for a number of his printed releases here so I think its a good guess.  Of course, taking pre-orders to get an exact count works well too.


Mars and i don't agree on a lot of things but he is spot on here.  First, 20 copies is plenty if you limit it to one per person (also eliminate speculators).  The Clegg items probably only sold to 40 unique buyers in total (many bought multiple copies), I think Ruby Dragon would bring in far less.  That's why pre-orders would be important.

I would be against getting "established" companies involved. Bill and Pacesetter have plenty on their plates already.  Black Blade hasn't published anything new in several years.  RC has his own items that he does a great job on.  As Mars said this wouldn't be a money making venture so it would be tough to get outside companies involved, it would be a labor of love. I was volunteering to Alan to do a conversion to S&W or Labyrinth Lord myself for con publication, and I'm not getting paid. I can't see a professional taking this amount of time to do this, and I wouldn't ask.

And this just applies to RD1.  The rest of the RD series would require a lot of work I suspect.  If Mars/Alan ever get those in printable form the NTRPG con would be interested in looking at it, but that seems far off in the future, myself I'm only concentrating on RD1 for the present.

Mike B.


There discussions in motion.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 3:29 am 
 

Well, sticking to this thread only and following the posting sequence, this is the actual list for the pre-orders which has been autogenerated by all of us:

1.        cdenham
2.        Gnat
3.        misterspock
4.        stratochamp (original only?)
5.        Versimilitude
6.        benjoshua
7.        aia
8.        lokiwookie
9.        Thunderdave
10.        PM-Knight
11.        mbassoc2003
12.        Prufrock
13.        JasonZavoda

...prb mars is right, a 25 limited print for here is more than enough...
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Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:57 am 
 

I would be interested in a copy as well.

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:02 am 
 

Oh hell, throw me in in for one copy too.  It's only money.  :-)

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