MERP rolled up map in box
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Post Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:50 pm 
 

ICE Code 2008 (possibly also a different one I need to check). Rolled maps in a triangular tube rather than folded (so, no creases). I have a couple to sell, any ideas on value or interest?

Many thanks!  :D


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 2:12 pm 
 

I bought one for $40 last year, which is what is was worth to me,

I hope that helps :)


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:00 am 
 

Much obliged!  :D


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:12 pm 
 

There are at least 2 different ones, both should go about $30-40 or so. I can't remember if it is the stock number or the box label that is different.


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:16 pm 
 

I had this vague sense that one was rarer than the other, but I don't recall whether or not the two versions differ content-wise significantly, or in size, etc.?

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:29 pm 
 

I honestly can't remember, Allan. I think you are correct, though, one was rarer. I had both and I think one was harder to find. There are definitely two different ones.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:02 am 
 

Thanks guys - will check carefully which it is before posting on ebay. :)


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:42 pm 
 

According to RPGGeek, there are three versions of the gridded map (all folded, and available only with the accompanying guidebook), and four versions of the gridless map.

1. Folded (2100A)
2. Rolled (2100)
3. Italian (2002)
4. Part of a two-map set (2008)

The gridless map was originally offered in both rolled and folded forms, the folded form to reduce shipping costs. We can ignore the Italian map as there is no information as to whether it was folded or rolled. That leaves two versions: the rolled map, and the map that is part of the two-map set. The evidence so far is circumstantial, but there is proof; that proof coming from the two-map set's publishing "blurb" found on the packaging (bold type for emphasis).

Finally, ICE's original map of Middle-earth is available again in flat poster format!


If the two-map set were the first time Pete Fenlon's Middle-earth map was offered in a rolled form, there would be no need for the word "again" in the publisher blurb. Thus, there are two versions of the rolled map available, easily distinguished. The first rolled map would be by itself, and (speculation) would likely have come in a plain cardboard tube. At the time Iron Crown was just starting out as a company, and couldn't readily afford specialized packaging for the map like what they did for the 1994 reissue. The 1994 reissue is rather self-explanatory: custom packaging, publisher blurb, and including a map of Northwestern Middle-earth.

Now, all of the above only confirms there were two versions. It doesn't actually answer the question: which is more rare? The answer I believe would be the earlier rolled version, as I believe they were intended to be a limited time collectible due to limited resources on Iron Crown's part. The lack of resources would also explain why the map was also offered in a folded format. The earliest issue of Dragon I could find in the Magazine Archive that offered the map was May, 1983, which was around the time frame the Middle-earth Campaign Guidebook had its page count bumped from 16 to 24 pages. Based upon the available evidence to me, Iron Crown sold out of the map by May, 1984 as they had changed their back cover ads in Dragon to no longer provide an order form. I don't have access to any ICE catalogs from that time frame, so I have no idea if they continued to offer the map past this point.



  

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:54 pm 
 

I think the original question wasn't about the early 80's map, but to confirm the detail about those: The catalogs from that era show rolled maps into 1985 (and possibly later — I didn't have a quick way to check). See the Product Catalog History section at the bottom of this:

MERP Printing & Edition Reference


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:07 pm 
 

ICE stock code #2008 Middle-earth Poster Maps (1994)
ICE stock code #2024 Lord of the Rings Poster Map (1997)

2008 has two maps, one showing the old blue map that expands the lands to the east and south, and the other is the largely tan map that shows the area just to the east of the forest that lies northeast of the sea of Rhun.

2024 has a single map, largely green that crops off part of the forest of Rhun.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:47 am 
 

Again Guy - that is an impressive piece of work. Kudos !!  8O


...yes I have both 2008 & 2024. Never seen a 2100 (although I do have a map in a plain tube I bought ages ago from someone at ICE...)


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:10 pm 
 

As I listed some MERP stuff on eBay, I happened across two relevant catalogs that shed more light on the 2100 vs 2100A map:

ICE Spring 1987 catalog still lists the rolled map (as "flat", as opposed to "folded") for sale for $5, along with the folded one.

ICE Summer 1987 catalog only lists the folded one in the normal action. The rolled map is only in the Discontinued Products section: "We have very limited quantities of the following products..."


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:24 pm 
 

Guy Fullerton wrote in MERP rolled up map in box:I think the original question wasn't about the early 80's map, but to confirm the detail about those: The catalogs from that era show rolled maps into 1985 (and possibly later — I didn't have a quick way to check). See the Product Catalog History section at the bottom of this:

MERP Printing & Edition Reference

You're right in that red_bus was trying to confirm it. Then we had multiple people posting about vague recollections of the earlier map. So to try and clear up any confusion, I posted my quick research. Unfortunately your page wasn't all that helpful to me, so I went with the collectors at RPGGeek, since the collectors maintain the database over there. It's good to know however the map was available rolled for a fair amount of time. I wonder if it took so long to sell them because people balked at the shipping price?

Anyway, the 1997 map mentioned by stratochamp is not the same map as what red_bus owns. 2100A and 2008 each include the same map, drawn by Fenlon in the 1980s. 2008 also includes the map of Northwestern Middle-earth, also drawn by Fenlon. The 2024 map however is not by Fenlon, but Jo Hartwig. The 1997 map uses a different color palate than 2100A and 2008, and also has illustrations by other artists, two of which I've met while they were doing work for Magic: The Gathering around the same time period.



  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:49 am 
 

All in all this has been pretty interesting. I wonder if the early 1983-1985/6/7(ish) map (ref #2100, possibly in plain packaging) is any different from the later reissue in a big toblerone-shaped box with a coloured label. I have only ever seen the latter for sale, but that is perhaps not surprising in that the packaging is quite distinctive. If the early map just shipped in a plain tube why would anyone even think to keep it, or for that matter keep it after they bought it on ebay. The fact that no one has mentioned any other distinctive packaging is *some* evidence that there was none -- there are plenty of MERP collectors here and elsewhere.

...I suppose you could compare the early folded map #2100A (on the assumption that it is identical to the #2100 flat version) with the later #2008 one up close (any very minor references round the edge perhaps..?) … I would but much of my MERP (including folded maps & guides) are stored behind boxes of bulk-buy nappies at the moment :)  But they might just be identical (i.e. a reprint). In which case we may never see a #2100 - unless someone recalls buying one and has the packaging etc... :)

PS. I have the #2024 map as well. Urgh - not as nice as the classic one :)


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:29 pm 
 

The tube for 2100 was a brown plain tube with no adornment.
2100a came in two styles: folded in a square and folded in a rectangle (for those of you scoring at home).
In a comparison of the maps contained in 2100 and the map of endor that is contained in 2008, they are depicting the same area (i.e. all of endor) but the 2100 map has a border running around it, and in a large box of the west coast is are words telling us that it is an artist's interpretation of middle-earth. All of that was left off the map in the 2008 stock code.

I acquired all of the middle earth stuff as it was first released ( I do not have anything from Jedko games or Hong Kong but I do have the UK version of MERP) so I am looking at these items as I am typing about them.


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:35 pm 
 

From what I recall, the maps themselves appear to be identical, including the stock number (EDIT: stratochamp mentions the differences in his post). But I don't have either poster map. The only thing I have is the first printing Campaign and Adventure Guidebook with the normal map with gridlines. And...I almost didn't get the map. The owners of the FLGS I frequented had the map in box beneath a table while the book itself was on the bookshelf.

Since I don't have the posters I couldn't tell you what the packaging was for certain. However, it very likely was a plain mailing tube. I found a picture on the Internet while looking around for info on the poster map, and found someone selling the folded poster map. The folded map came in a plain envelope. As for the tube being plain, keep in mind the time period. In 1982 Iron Crown was still a relatively new company. Mailing tubes weren't cheap, and there was no Staples next door you could head to. They could have placed a finished label on the tube, but postal regulations both then and now I believe prohibited such a practice, especially as I know boxed goods with colorful labels have to be placed in a box, or wrapped in paper.

The folded map and rolled map are the same stock number, 2100A. The A is important here, because the campaign and adventure guidebook and its map with gridlines both bear the stock number of 2100. I doubt comparing the maps up close would reveal significant differences unless Iron Crown reworked the printing plates to change the stock number on the maps. Something that due to the cost of printing I think unlikely. The only area where there could be a significant difference is in the paper itself. Detailed chemical analysis of the paper could determine which is which, but that tends to be a bit destructive.

I doubt we'll ever see 2100A in a mailing tube. In 1982 were you thinking of collecting this stuff, or were you like the rest of the crowd, thinking it was a cool thing to hang on your wall? In 1982 I definitely wouldn't be shy about hanging the map on the wall, with thumbtacks to boot. ;)



  


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Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:54 pm 
 

I do have the posters, so I can tell you exactly what each contained.

2100 is the tube with a rolled map of endor, without a square grid overlay on it. The tube, which was the original tube I got from ICE at Gencon in 1982, is completely blank.
2100a is a map of endor (without square grid overlay) folded in a rectangle shape with a cardboard backer for protection, and then shrinkwrapped. This was also made available with a square fold.
2200 is the campaign and adventure guidebook for middle earth, with a square folded map of endor, with the square grid overlay on it.

P.S. I was thinking about collecting this stuff in 1982; that was the GenCon I bought the first ob3 ever sold....for $46. My friends thought I was crazy.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:10 am 
 

stratochamp wrote in MERP rolled up map in box:I do have the posters, so I can tell you exactly what each contained.

2100 is the tube with a rolled map of endor, without a square grid overlay on it. The tube, which was the original tube I got from ICE at Gencon in 1982, is completely blank.
2100a is a map of endor (without square grid overlay) folded in a rectangle shape with a cardboard backer for protection, and then shrinkwrapped. This was also made available with a square fold.
2200 is the campaign and adventure guidebook for middle earth, with a square folded map of endor, with the square grid overlay on it.

P.S. I was thinking about collecting this stuff in 1982; that was the GenCon I bought the first ob3 ever sold....for $46. My friends thought I was crazy.


That's approximately $116.56 in 2017 dollars.   :D



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Post Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:54 am 
 

stratochamp wrote in MERP rolled up map in box:2200 is the campaign and adventure guidebook for middle earth, with a square folded map of endor, with the square grid overlay on it.

You have the second edition, ME 2200, which was printed in 1983. Mine is the first edition , ME 2100 (as shown on the title page below) from 1982. The map in both is identical, but the books are very different. While they both retain the original cover, ME 2200 not only has "second edition" printed on the front cover, but was expanded from the 16 pages in ME 2100 to 24. So hopefully you can see where ICE selling the map separately with stock number 2100 would be confusing. Thus 2100A should be the stock number, regardless of whether rolled or folded. What it actually is only you can confirm.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:01 pm 
 

There are many instances of companies putting incorrect stock numbers on their books; since I organize things exclusively by stock codes, it is one of the items that I cross index on excel. This would be one of those instances. The stock code for the 1st edition Guidebook and gridded map is 2200. One may look inside a 1982 module, like Umbar for instance and see it listed there. The stock code for the poster/map ungridded mailed in a tube is 2100.

So stylistically one could argue that the stock code printed in the item is the way it should be organized (and I can see that point of view) in which case they would both be stock code 2100. I have chosen to use the number I know it was supposed to be and denote the company's mistake in my spreadsheet. The maps, sold separately, as I had mentioned before were stock code 2100A.

When they got around to the second edition, they had corrected their incorrect stock code and made it 2200.


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