Value of Ultra Rare Modules (Palace of VQ and LCOT)
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Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:46 am 
 

Hi All, trying to get ballpark values on the following:

Palace of the Vampire Queen- First Print 1976 NM (never opened) Black Cover with Red Writing. In bag.

First Module ever published. More details on Acaeum.

Palace of the Vampire Queen, First Print. 1976 with Ziplock Bag. Yellow Cover. Mint

Lost Caverns of Tsojconth - First Print 1976 Wintercon V Tournament Module.  NM (never opened)

Second module ever published. Only 300 printed.

I would appreciate any feedback and PM's are welcome.

Thanks!


Last edited by Super77777 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:18 pm 
 

Hi Super,
When you say "never opened" for the PoVQ, do you mean it's in a ziploc bag or something comparable that has never been opened?  Or is it not bagged, and the folder itself has never been opened?  Either way, these sound like they might be in top-shelf condition.

Edit:  Okay, now that I see you have it listed as a 2nd print, I'm assuming you mean the digest-sized booklet version, and the booklet has never been opened.  Is that right?


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:19 pm 
 

Hi thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I should have been more specific. I have first prints of both and in the bags.

POTVQ First print is in a bag. It is the one with the black folder and red writing. These have been in storage and were never opened.

I also have the second print of POTVQ in the ziplock bag. This is the same but not in the black folder. It is Yellow in the ziplock bag. I WAS INCORRECT- this is also FIRST Print. Out of curiosity I opened one carefully to check the copyright  page.

Lost Caverns of Tsojconth - First Print 1976 Wintercon V Tournament Module, this is in the ziplock bag as well.

These were all a discovery among other items from the 70's-early 80's and were never used. Still in shock. I can't find an analogue for these items in this shape.

See attached pics to see which ones I mean. I have a few copies, I need to get better pics to show the best ones.

Thanks

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Last edited by Super77777 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
  

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:02 pm 
 

There was a PoTVQ at Gencon last year with a reserve of $1000.00.

Frank started the bidding low, just to see if any momentum could build... the bidding stopped at around $200 - $250 I think...


Yours is in better condition, and IMHO you should ask for $800 minimum. You might still get $1000.00, but you'd have to be really patient these days...


The Tsojconth should go for a little more... $1000 - $1250 range.


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:05 pm 
 

Thanks, yeah not in a rush just curious about current market. I know they have gone for more in a good market.


Thanks :D


Last edited by Super77777 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:42 pm 
 

I can't speak on the PoTVQ, but the Tsojconth has only rarely ever gone over $1,500 even in a "good market."   Also I am not really sure what that term means. When it comes to very rare D&D collectibles, some are still going for very high prices, witness recently that astonishingly high 3rd Print price.

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Condition is the key for these kinds of items. Again, you will find white-box sets going high still as long as they are in good condition.

Invincible Overlord is right, with his range for the Tsojconth. if it is basically new then you will get a bit more. But I would not want to get your hopes up for anything more than $1,250-1,500 (regardless of market). And they have gone for less.


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:36 pm 
 

Well, even on this site there is record of them going for 1800 and 2000. I am not saying I think they need to go that high, but it's happened. 1250-1500 sounds fair. I had the white box sets in shrink that I sold, I know the prices vary. There were only 300 of the Caverns printed, so they are more rare than most of the sets out there. It depends how much a collector wants to pay and how long they want to wait, like everything else.

Thanks for the feedback guys  :D

  


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:21 pm 
 

My apologies. I thought you were looking for general prices. If you are looking for what they have gone for *recently*, then the last comparable was the "new" one sold by Lumberjacqes in Jan 2010 for $960 (he sold a few others, e.g. one in 2008 for $1,340).
Also, Kylej444 also sold a "mint" one in early 2010 for $960. There have been some more recent than that but prob not in as nice condition. Hope helpful  :D


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:25 pm 
 

Thanks Red Bus. VERY helpful. Yeah, general pricing was good. I know it can vary wildly. Happy that I have them and can appreciate their history.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:11 pm 
 

red_bus wrote:I can't speak on the PoTVQ, but the Tsojconth has only rarely ever gone over $1,500 even in a "good market."   Also I am not really sure what that term means. When it comes to very rare D&D collectibles, some are still going for very high prices, witness recently that astonishingly high 3rd Print price.

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Condition is the key for these kinds of items. Again, you will find white-box sets going high still as long as they are in good condition.

Invincible Overlord is right, with his range for the Tsojconth. if it is basically new then you will get a bit more. But I would not want to get your hopes up for anything more than $1,250-1,500 (regardless of market). And they have gone for less.


The 3rd print woodie I sold a few years back was in better shape than that one, and sold for almost $3000. I also think the general market was stronger for rares back then as well, what with the economy and all recently.

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:30 pm 
 

didn't the recent one (woodgrain) you referenced, Steven, have some interesting provenance?  That might have inflated the price.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:52 pm 
 

$3000 for a 3rd print woodgrain sounds insane too.  I thought the record for minty 1st prints was in the $4000 range.

$1000 for Tsojconth sounds about right - this seems to be the easiest of all the rares to get and the market basically got somewhat saturated.  Some sell over $1K but many have sold in the $800 range (and a couple lower than that too).

I'd be curious to see what the PotVQ would sell for these days - with a couple hundred new reprints floating around, I'm not sure there are that many people willing to drop $1000+ on one now.  A few years ago, these foldered copies would have been $1300+ each without much trouble.

As soon as a seller starts stating things like "(never opened)" on items like this, I immediately think they are a typical overgrader.  Someone opened the bag to put the item in.  Someone opened the folder to put the pages in.  It sounds like you don't really remember buying these so how is it that you do remember never taking a look at them.  I'm not sure what type of meaning you are trying to get out by using the term.

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Post Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:22 am 
 

How can a market get over-saturated by something that had a finite number printed almost 40 years ago? There were 300 printed, therefore that is all that exist. How is that easy to get? Do you have a source? Just kidding.

I agree with your assessment of how people typically overgrade their items, but I know the origin of the particular items I am inquiring about. The POTV and Lost Caverns (and several other items I already sold such as White Box sets in shrink, first prints of several sets)  that I have were sitting in storage from a closed game store, therefore "Never Opened" is quite accurate since they never entered the market. Not sure what you mean by mentioning that someone opened the folder to put the pages in...that is how they came. OK. they were "never opened after coming from the people who created them."  I hope that makes it more clear.

Also, how can you compare a reprint to an original? Anyone buying one of the originals is not looking for a reprint. If someone is just looking for a copy, they could get a reprint or just print of a scanned pdf. A collector wants the real rare item-not just a copy to play with. Why buy something 40 years old to begin with if you just want a copy? The person collecting these is looking for a piece of history.

I have received offers for more already and the items sold. To satisfy your curiosity the POTV sold for more than 1000. There are plenty of collectors willing to buy nice rare pieces. I didn't come on here looking for offers, just some opinions. I should have made that clear from the outset, because I know that asking potential buyers to be raters would be a conflict of interest  :D

Thanks for your feedback.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:02 pm 
 

The Tsojconth "saturation" simply comes from the fact that numerous (still very few in the big picture) copies hit the market in a short period of time. I think about twice as many Tsos appears over the same stretch as Tamos - and a scant few Invs. About a two year span. There are only so many people at any given time willing spend the money to purchase these modules, so you get a minor saturation. I can say with confidence that if a void of a few years roll by with no Tsos, the first one to come up on eBay will sell at a higher price than what we have seen over the past few years.
Another important point to factor in is that pesky rumor that a bunch of Tsos exist in someone's closet. I know for a fact that up until around 1979 (or within a year +\-) MDG still had unsold copies of Tso. Clearly, eBay seller lumberjacques had some of these and maybe more. He was affiliated with MDG back in those days as was I.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:34 pm 
 

bombadil wrote:didn't the recent one (woodgrain) you referenced, Steven, have some interesting provenance?  That might have inflated the price.


Spot on, it did and the guy selling it kindly agreed to include a letter with the information. So I was planning to bid quite high. ...  but not that high !!  :D


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:44 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:Clearly, eBay seller lumberjacques had some of these and maybe more. He was affiliated with MDG back in those days as was I.


True. I think he has sold about five or six since about 2006. Also I think he had a few Fazzlewoods as well. I never got round to buying one off him, and I am not sure if, or how how many, he might have left. But they were basically new. Next time ... :D


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:53 pm 
 

Thanks for clarifying bbarsh.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:47 pm 
 

red_bus wrote:
bbarsh wrote:Clearly, eBay seller lumberjacques had some of these and maybe more. He was affiliated with MDG back in those days as was I.


True. I think he has sold about five or six since about 2006. Also I think he had a few Fazzlewoods as well. I never got round to buying one off him, and I am not sure if, or how how many, he might have left. But they were basically new. Next time ... :D


I spoke to him via email several years ago. I don't think he had too many of either. But at this point, I am fairly sure he had the remaining MDG stock. Very possible, but I do not want say for sure. When MDG began to disintigate various people simply held on to whatever physical items they were holding. I would bet that the few remaining modules were just forgotten in a closet, garage or basement until the started showing up on eBay. By that time, the original MDG had long since dissolved.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

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Post Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:14 pm 
 

Super77777 wrote:How can a market get over-saturated by something that had a finite number printed almost 40 years ago?


Saturated at a particular price point I think is the comment.. agreeded there is a finite number printed, but there are also a finite number of collectors that are wiling and able to pay top dollar for the item.. since this is one of the most numerous rares, most of those big spenders have alreay a copy (or three) already.. a lot of poeple will be thinking if I don't get this at a certain price now then I won't have long to wait till the next one appears..

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Post Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:37 pm 
 

Mars wrote:$3000 for a 3rd print woodgrain sounds insane too.  I thought the record for minty 1st prints was in the $4000 range.


The (most recent) record for a minty 1st print was in the amount of $7500. I believe that number hit about a year ago (maybe closer to a year-and-a-half?).

I thought that Paul Stormberg bought it?

And it was damn near perfect...


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