bbarsh wrote:2. NTRPGCon seem to have the digest sized printing down to a tee. At this size, are you able/willing to discuss cost per unit printed? And how mauch time is put into assembling and proofing each product prior to publishing it?The problem with the NTX digest modules is that they are pure collector items, for the most part. Their target buyer is most often the collector. Nothing negative about that, but they are not what I would consider a more mass-market product, if that can really be said about any OSR stuff.
2. NTRPGCon seem to have the digest sized printing down to a tee. At this size, are you able/willing to discuss cost per unit printed? And how mauch time is put into assembling and proofing each product prior to publishing it?
bbarsh wrote:4. What do FGG and GG have that make their product more viable than others on the market? How do they achieve the sales they do, and afford to pay for quality artwork and cartography? Is it purely a case of having thousands in the bank, or is there something they 'get' that the smaller presses don't understand yet? How do these companies' business models vary from those of other publishers? And why are their prodcts larger, better typeset, and better presented than the rest?Yes, it is money. Also, I think many of their products cross platforms so this helps drive their sales. They are also well-established and the products are solid. But it can't be stated loud enough that good art costs money - big money in relation to OSR sales numbers. Getting an established (named artist) to do a cover is typically going to cost you several hundred dollars (and usually more). If you drop $800 or so on art, you are way behind the profit curve unless you can sell about 200 copies minimum to break even. Assuming you are selling a $10 book at about 32 pages.
4. What do FGG and GG have that make their product more viable than others on the market? How do they achieve the sales they do, and afford to pay for quality artwork and cartography? Is it purely a case of having thousands in the bank, or is there something they 'get' that the smaller presses don't understand yet? How do these companies' business models vary from those of other publishers? And why are their prodcts larger, better typeset, and better presented than the rest?
mbassoc2003 wrote:bbarsh wrote:The problem with the NTX digest modules is that they are pure collector items, for the most part. Their target buyer is most often the collector. Nothing negative about that, but they are not what I would consider a more mass-market product, if that can really be said about any OSR stuff.Sure, but you could publish modules in this format. I suppose people really want to buy 'traditional' card cover and 16 page BW modules, because those are in keeping with the old school feel of the hobby. This is where finding a publisher wh can bang out products on newspring might be beneficial to a small press publisher, because it is in keeping, and an author/publisher could build a congruent product, or even a range, based around a particular niche printing style.bbarsh wrote:Yes, it is money. Also, I think many of their products cross platforms so this helps drive their sales. They are also well-established and the products are solid. But it can't be stated loud enough that good art costs money - big money in relation to OSR sales numbers. Getting an established (named artist) to do a cover is typically going to cost you several hundred dollars (and usually more). If you drop $800 or so on art, you are way behind the profit curve unless you can sell about 200 copies minimum to break even. Assuming you are selling a $10 book at about 32 pages.So if you had financing in place, you knock out your first product, print 300 copies, sell 120 and keep the balance in backstock whilst you knock out the next. That tells me that you could probably feasibly establish a decent product line with quality artwork on a one product every four to six months with about $1000-1500 capital and a further need for a $500-$800 to bump the second product along assuming slow sales of the first. Backstock presumably will sell as new products are released and a publisher becomes better known.
bbarsh wrote:The problem with the NTX digest modules is that they are pure collector items, for the most part. Their target buyer is most often the collector. Nothing negative about that, but they are not what I would consider a more mass-market product, if that can really be said about any OSR stuff.
bbarsh wrote:Yes, it is money. Also, I think many of their products cross platforms so this helps drive their sales. They are also well-established and the products are solid. But it can't be stated loud enough that good art costs money - big money in relation to OSR sales numbers. Getting an established (named artist) to do a cover is typically going to cost you several hundred dollars (and usually more). If you drop $800 or so on art, you are way behind the profit curve unless you can sell about 200 copies minimum to break even. Assuming you are selling a $10 book at about 32 pages.
bbarsh wrote:Bottom line is that expensive art requires a high sales volume relative to your print run.
TheHistorian wrote:bbarsh wrote:Bottom line is that expensive art requires a high sales volume relative to your print run.Presumably that has always been true, explaining the art of so many non-TSR products over the years...
mbassoc2003 wrote:That's also where FGG win big points by using the same piece of cover art for all their Slumbering Tsar products. Good business sense.So, another question might be... Can a staggeringly good piece of cover art sell a mediocre product?
mbassoc2003 wrote:That's also where FGG win big points by using the same piece of cover art for all their Slumbering Tsar products.
FormCritic wrote:I have a project in mind. I need advice about a couple of things:1) Where to look for help with art. How much should this cost? Is my own amateur art better than paying for a professinal...from an old-school sentimental viewpoint?2) Where do I look for a printer? What are the pitfalls?3) So, if I print 100 copies, and do some small advertising...how many copies will I have left after Acaeum guys buy them to be nice to me?
mbassoc2003 wrote:That's also where FGG win big points by using the same piece of cover art for all their Slumbering Tsar products. Good business sense.
mbassoc2003 wrote:Can a staggeringly good piece of cover art sell a mediocre product?
Nogrod wrote:How much do you guys think a known (amongst OSR nerds) artist contributes to sales or at least readers of a finished product?
Kingofpain89 wrote:Lets put it this way. Get Pete Mullen, Rowena Aitken, Nathan Nada, Peter Szmer or Mark Allen to do the cover or interior artwork and I'll buy it. Get Larry Elmore, Erol Otus, Jeff Easley, Fred Fields or Paul Jaquays to do it and I'll buy two. :D Oh, and if you cant draw maps you might consider hiring a cartographer. Some of the stuff Dyson Logos and Robert Conley does is really nice.
Nogrod wrote:Is $500-$1200 dollars even in the ballpark for the artists you have listed (the first list not the second I don't know what Erol Otus charges, but I am sure I can't afford it) for a cover + interior illustrations? What would you think a cartographer would cost, my module is not map heavy but maps make the game for me most times. I can use Campaign Cartographer, but I am not especially talented with finished product dungeon maps.
Nogrod wrote:Also I would love it if anyone who creates home brew print adventures here would reply (or PM me), I buy a lot of them and am always on the lookout for good stuff.
Thork N Hammer wrote: Uh, well, you can go to my store and download some freebies. (See link in my sig)
