Tunnels and Trolls computer generated solitaire dungeon
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:50 pm 
 

Unfortunately, an unexpected $4000 dentist bill means I may have to sell some of my treasures.  Unfortunately, there are quite a few where I have no idea of current value.

Does anyone know what the old Computer Generated Solitaire Dungeons from Flying Buffalo go for nowadays?  The one I'd be selling is in what I'd call fair to good condition--a little corner wear and some discoloration on the cover, and the staples have significant rust.  However, the pages are clean and the ink is still nice and dark (which is saying something, given that it's dot-matrix printed!)

Any advice will be appreciated.  Thanks!

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:34 pm 
 

NKG has one for sale for $85 but it is (as usual) overpriced. $50 would be more appropriate in VG condition.
If your copy is only in fair to good condition, maybe more in the $30-40 range. But on ebay who knows, perhaps more...


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:23 pm 
 

Your copy of Dinky Dungeons might be worth the most in your collection - depending on how much stuff you have.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:00 pm 
 

yes there are a fair few T&T collectors about. a mate of mine in the UK is an avid collector of T&T stuff and doesnt frequent this site.

if you have a list of what youre offloading in detail, with prices, i can pass it to him for a looksee?

cheers

Al



  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:22 pm 
 

Yes, only a few people are really collecting T&T,sadly, and it is very very hard to get accurate informations about printings.
T&T is one of the more obscure RPGs for printing history. I have a lot of questions without answers for your friend :)


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:12 am 
 

Dinky Dungeons always seems to be a good seller.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:16 am 
 

lokiwookie wrote:Yes, only a few people are really collecting T&T,sadly, and it is very very hard to get accurate informations about printings.
T&T is one of the more obscure RPGs for printing history


What sort of price and availability are original T&T rules sets, just out of interest?


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:03 am 
 

ashmire13 wrote:

What sort of price and availability are original T&T rules sets, just out of interest?




Most of things are easy to find and do not worth a lot (few $). Modules are common, and the hardest to find are 1st print of early modules. The problem is that there is sometimes so many prints with so less differences between them that it becomes nearly impossible to distinguish by the cover and to bid accordingly. For example Buffalo Castle, or Dungeon of Bear have a lot of prints.



Some are more rare. Since few months, prices are rather low. I guess the rarest are the 1st ed. (of course), T&T Supplement and to a less extend A Computer Generated Dungeon, MD's Screen & survival kit, a black box in complete NM condition, and few early prints for early modules. Others are uncommon, but never sold for high prices (as UK editions).

I recently got a excellent copy of the 2nd ed. for $65. It is one of the rarest T&T items though. I expected it would go for much more (in the $150 range)

http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 0562022768

I think that only the 1st ed. could go over $100 (IIRC one has been sold to TFM for a lot of money, around $300?)


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:08 am 
 

> Others are uncommon, but never sold for high prices (as UK editions).



Rare, but rarely over $40-50, yes.



> I recently got a excellent copy of the 2nd ed. for $65. It is one of the rarest T&T items though. I expected it would go for much more (in the $150 range)

>  
** expired eBay auction **




Ah... I forgot to check who won that one, sorry.

It took long enough to get Marc to list that as a 2nd rather than a 1st, but he still declined to check for marks since the 2nd and 3rd were staple bound not comb bound (compare with Buffalo Castle, for example). I was tempted to outbid and then get that refunded if it was clear enough that it had been mutilated but decided that was more hassle than it was worth. Still good for that $, either way, as the only fine 2nd before went for $225-250: the other couple had notable faults.



> I think that only the 1st ed. could go over $100 (IIRC one has been sold to TFM for a lot of money, around $300?)



Try a lot more... and it wasn't, of course.



lokiwookie wrote:NKG has one for sale for $85 but it is (as usual) overpriced. $50 would be more appropriate in VG condition.
If your copy is only in fair to good condition, maybe more in the $30-40 range. But on ebay who knows, perhaps more...


Yep; there or thereabouts, I'd've thought. :)


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:28 am 
 

faro wrote:It took long enough to get Marc to list that as a 2nd rather than a 1st, but he still declined to check for marks since the 2nd and 3rd were staple bound not comb bound (compare with Buffalo Castle, for example). I was tempted to outbid and then get that refunded if it was clear enough that it had been mutilated but decided that was more hassle than it was worth.


I noticed that listing changed from 1st ed. to 2nd ed. Didn't know who asked him to make the change ;)
Definitely a guenine 2nd print, without any staple marks. So I guess it was released spiral bound, and BTW at least 2 prints exist. The 3rd ed. TFM copy is staple bound, yes. Do you own a 2rd ed. staple bound? It would be interesting to compare our copies in this case.

faro wrote:Still good for the $, either way, as the only fine 2nd went for $225-250: the other couple have had notable faults.


One corner was damaged. Otherwise this copy is in excellent condition. I was very astonished that it sold for less than $100. My high bid was $150 but I was afraid to be outbid (I firstly offered around $200 for this copy before there was any bid but Marc finally relisted it after changing 1st to 2nd ed and someone bid on it).

I am wondering how many copies of 1st to 3rd ed. still exist.

faro wrote:> I think that only the 1st ed. could go over $100 (IIRC one has been sold to TFM for a lot of money, around $300?)

Try a lot more... and it wasn't, of course.


Yeah, around $1000? I remember a post where TFM warned us about the seller (the man of Outlaw press isn't he?) who sold photocopies instead of original.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:45 am 
 

> Do you own a 2rd ed. staple bound?

Yes (and Bill made me pay through the nose!). Every 2nd seen thus far has been stapled and I'll still need convincing that two separate prints is the explanation for that /specifically/ given that the 3rd was also released staple bound and the binding chronology matches Buffalo Castle, etc., neatly without having to explain why they might've comb bound just /one/ copy (seen thus far), then gone back to staples again. The staples were only small but in a pain-in-the-neck position to try to open the book for use.
I was working on the basis it would require two copies alongside each other to compare definitively, rather than from scans, so good luck with the next one that comes up, too! ;)

> My high bid was $150 but I was afraid to be outbid (I firstly offered around $200 for this copy before there was any bid but Marc finally relisted it after changing 1st to 2nd ed and someone bid on it).

*nods* Had thought relisting rather than just adding the correction text might not be a good idea but left that to him as I'd already spent enough time advising and querying on other sales he was posting for a third party.

> I am wondering how many copies of 1st to 3rd ed. still exist.

Not many.

> Yeah, around $1000? I remember a post where TFM warned us about the seller (the man of Outlaw press isn't he?) who sold photocopies instead of original.

I'll also stay clear of the politics on that one, save to say he did have Ken St. Andre's original 1st print.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:46 am 
 

lokiwookie wrote:
Yeah, around $1000? I remember a post where TFM warned us about the seller (the man of Outlaw press isn't he?) who sold photocopies instead of original.



I think I remember that case.  It was $1300, if I recall correctly, and what showed up had very obviously-modern typefonts.

In any case, the majority of my modules are later prints; the earliest I recall having are a second printing of City of Terrors and a second printing of Monsters!  Monsters!

  

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:54 am 
 

Phentari wrote:... second printing of Monsters!  Monsters!

If that's a $7 cover price Metagaming edition, that's a first not a second. They had difficulty shifting copies and reduced the cover price to $5.95 later (with $7 copies turning up for a long time afterwards, in all likelihood...).


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:01 am 
 

faro wrote:I was working on the basis it would require two copies alongside each other to compare definitively, rather than from scans, so good luck with the next one that comes up, too! ;)


Or you can ship your copy to me to compare :D

You should be right for the staple/spiral bound matter. I will be strange to use staples, than spiral bound for their products.
Perhaps until 1977 they used only staples (and so my copy was "mutilated") since the 4th printing of buffalo castle is spiral bound as well as the 4th ed. T&T (both released in 77)

But T&T printing history is rather obscure.

[EDIT] on Tome, TFM owns a 1976 copy of Buffalo Castle which is spiral bound. No mention about printing (my 1977 printing copy states 4th printing) so 3rd print?


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:13 am 
 

faro wrote:If that's a $7 cover price Metagaming edition, that's a first not a second. They had difficulty shifting copies and reduced the cover price to $5.95 later (with $7 copies turning up for a long time afterwards, in all likelihood...).


Second print from FBInc.  Should've clarified, sorry.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:23 am 
 

> Or you can ship your copy to me to compare :D

*g* Could do, when I find it next. Anything of interest to ship alongside to keep it company on the way back?

> You should be right for the staple/spiral bound matter. I will be strange to use staples, than spiral bound for their products.
> Perhaps until 1977 they used only staples (and so my copy was "mutilated") since the 4th printing of buffalo castle is spiral bound as well as the 4th ed. T&T (both released in 77)
> [EDIT] on Tome, TFM owns a 1976 copy of Buffalo Castle which is spiral bound. No mention about printing (my 1977 printing copy states 4th printing) so 3rd print?[/quote]

I'm in agreement with Kynan that the comb bound copies are later per his footnote on corrections and cut-and-paste work.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that some sheets for the 2nd T&T had been left around unbound, but does require explanation and/or collaboration, IMHO: at present, afaik, you have the only "possible" item in that domain regardless of how it came to be bound.

> But T&T printing history is rather obscure.

That's no joke! There may well be other multiple small print runs for some early product where there's no change of printing information noted: the (staple-bound) Supplement, for example. I'd planned to dig around for other possible variations but it's a bit hit-or-miss under the circumstances and I only have a few spares of some of those.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:24 am 
 

Phentari wrote:Second print from FBInc.  Should've clarified, sorry.

Darn, that's a pity... Still, it seems like you have quite a few other more collectible items on hand: a pity that the market isn't a bit stronger at present, from that p.o.v., and that those have to be sold only because of a (huge) dental bill. :?


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:00 pm 
 

faro wrote:
*g* Could do, when I find it next. Anything of interest to ship alongside to keep it company on the way back?.




Are you looking for something in particular?  I have some early prints of different T&T modules, but not sure they could be of interest. The 4th print of Buff.Castle perhaps? Or some UK prints? I wonder if the T&T UK print (the one with the spiral on cover) has several prints too.



Another game that you want to read? ;



Speaking about other games, especially UK games, I bought the Victorian Adventures copy on ebay. Seller said that it is the 1st print from 1983, but it should had been boxed in this case. Of the 2nd print of 1985 is the same book? Anyone else have a copy?


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