Value for Outdoor Geomorphs Walled City-With issues
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Post Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:04 am 
 

I have a complete set of the Outdoor Geomorph's.
The 22 piece and 11 piece Geos have been cut out, but all are present and the set is complete.

Cover sheet is fine with some wear.
The explanation 4 page portion (Rear Sheet) is very good or better with a tiny 1/4" tear at bottom (at the fold) and some wear, and a bit of crimping at top right corner (At the fold).

Almost all of the pieces have letters written in blue INK in the margins (I assume they were for reference to some design by a former owner) and 2 of the pieces (One of each size) also have numbers written in pencil.

Wonder the value of such an item and would appreciate some help with valuation from fellow Acaeum Members.

ImageImage

The three cut pieces below are (I think) the worst as far as writing is concerned.
The top one and the longer one on the right are the only two pieces with Pencil writing and all but two pieces have at least one inked letter with a handful having two inked letters.
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Post Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:55 am 
 

Fortunately the set is complete; however I think once the pieces have been cut out, the value diminishes greatly.  At this point, the writing would be just one more reason for me not to bid.  As I do not own a copy, I am not sure how neat it is, but I would pay no more than a few bucks to take a look - maybe $5 to $10 at most.

I've watched the shrinked copies sell for a good price lately with Rabbit67 scoring the last one if I recall correctly (Darn you wascally Wabbit67! :) ), but even in shrink, they are way down on my list of must haves.  They just haven't captured my interest.


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Post Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:01 pm 
 

smarmy1 wrote:Fortunately the set is complete; however I think once the pieces have been cut out, the value diminishes greatly.  At this point, the writing would be just one more reason for me not to bid.  As I do not own a copy, I am not sure how neat it is, but I would pay no more than a few bucks to take a look - maybe $5 to $10 at most.

I've watched the shrinked copies sell for a good price lately with Rabbit67 scoring the last one if I recall correctly (Darn you wascally Wabbit67! :) ), but even in shrink, they are way down on my list of must haves.  They just haven't captured my interest.


Wowsers!
While I do agree that the cut pices do lower the value a bit, I think $5-$10 is WAY too low...that is less than 10% of the POOR condition Acaeum Guide for this item.

Were you perhaps thinking of one of the more common indoor Geomorph Sets?
This is the much harder to find Outdoor Geomorphs Set One: Walled City Set.


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Post Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:08 pm 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:
Wowsers!
While I do agree that the cut pices do lower the value a bit, I think $5-$10 is WAY too low...that is less than 10% of the POOR condition Acaeum Guide for this item.

Were you perhaps thinking of one of the more common indoor Geomorph Sets?
This is the much harder to find Outdoor Geomorphs Set One: Walled City Set.


Yeah, that estimate seems a little low. I recall a set auctioned by one of the original Lake Geneva players (forgive me, can't recall who at the moment) that was similarly used (cut up and annotated) going for more like $20. A week or two ago a presumably complete copy with next to zero description (i.e., condition largely a mystery) went for around $65. My guess would be that with full disclosure of the set's condition and multiple pictures, yours would be worth somewhere in the $15 - $35 range.


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Post Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:28 pm 
 

Collector's Trove sold one from the Maynard collection back in Nov 2009 for $66, and it was cut up. I'm not sure what printing this was.



There was another one from March of 2009 that sold for $117. It was not cut up, but someone had used "draftsman quality" to darken the outlines the buildings on many of the sheets. This particular one was a 1st print.



edit: the one he mentioned above that was a mystery was a bin for $65 and was in a sellers protective sleeve, but no infomation on how complete or the condition it was in.



http://cgi.ebay.com/Outdoor-Geomorphs-T ... 5ad9594c5d



There were two second printings, one from May and June of 2009 that were not in shrink and not cut up that sold for around $105 each.



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Post Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:35 pm 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:Were you perhaps thinking of one of the more common indoor Geomorph Sets?
This is the much harder to find Outdoor Geomorphs Set One: Walled City Set.


You are correct, sir.  :) I had never really paid much attention to the indoor/outdoor differences in price and/or rarity; however, I did remember the set pointed out by misterspock and was using that as my baseline for evaluation ($65).  I should have known better as one sample point does not make a great trend. :)  

Since I am not a TSR completist, even given the rarity of the item and the historical pricing data from 2004, I would still not pay more than $20 for this one.  What do you think it is worth?


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Post Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:59 pm 
 

misterspock wrote:Collector's Trove sold one from the Maynard collection back in Nov 2009 for $66, and it was cut up. I'm not sure what printing this was.


That was the one I was thinking of, but clearly my recollection of the end price was faulty. I was basing my $15 - $35 guess on that misremembered amount, so I guess I have no clue--big surprise :).


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Post Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:36 pm 
 

misterspock wrote:Collector's Trove sold one from the Maynard collection back in Nov 2009 for $66, and it was cut up. I'm not sure what printing this was.

Yep; $66.05 rather than $20: has anyone "guessed" high recently? :)

misterspock wrote:There were two second printings, one from May and June of 2009 that were not in shrink and not cut up that sold for around $105 each.

Was one of those not the 3rd print that still sold for $104.05 (5/31/09) despite the absence of the four page "instruction pamphlet" and being US-only?


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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:48 am 
 

Yes, you're right. The auction for the 3rd print that ended on May 31 2009 for approx $104 did not have the pamphlet.

  

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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:38 am 
 

So a set with pieces or parts missing is worth anywhere from twice to five times as much?
2 times to 5 times More than a COMPLETE set that has the parts cut up that are meant to be cut up? :?

Sorry folks, but I cannot agree with that thinking.
Not saying you are wrong as so many of you seem to agree.

To me that is exactly REVERSED from what it SHOULD be.

If it aint complete then THAT is the set that IMO is FAR less desirable than a complete set with a few issues.
Especially if the only issue is that the set has been gently used... (Not the set above... save that for later)
If it is used then the pieces would HAVE to be cut... :lol:
As you all know, the pieces that were cut were designed to be cut!
The missing pages are not supposed to be missing!

Which set would a collector truly rather have if he/she could only have one?
Complete and cut, or incomplete and not cut?


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Last edited by Gnat the Beggar on Sun May 16, 2010 12:07 pm, edited 4 times in total.
  

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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:14 am 
 

So how much would a SW copy be worth??????

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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:22 am 
 

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:

Yeah, that estimate seems a little low. I recall a set auctioned by one of the original Lake Geneva players (forgive me, can't recall who at the moment) that was similarly used (cut up and annotated) going for more like $20. A week or two ago a presumably complete copy with next to zero description (i.e., condition largely a mystery) went for around $65. My guess would be that with full disclosure of the set's condition and multiple pictures, yours would be worth somewhere in the $15 - $35 range.




http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT



So now we get to the main point of this thread.

I was the person who BIN'ed that set.

Yep... I agree that the listing had almost no description.

I knew I was taking a small gamble… with a Next to Zero Description.



The comments above tell me that all of you feel this set is not worth anywhere close to the $65 I paid for it (plus $5 shipping).



So, for me to get my money back from this set, I would have to re-sell and lie by omission, or demand a full refund from the seller.



Seller has offered a $15 refund in part (I keep the set as is and must leave poss feedback).

That would be a $50 price plus $5 shipping.

About twice the value of this set as some above indicated.



Or a full refund with shipping both ways (Again must leave poss feedback).


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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:42 am 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:The comments above tell me that all of you feel this set is not worth anywhere close to the $65 I paid for it (plus $5 shipping).

Count me out of "all", please, given the incomplete example I cited.


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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:58 am 
 

Badmike wrote:So how much would a SW copy be worth??????

Mike B.
a 1st pr outdoor geos came up in the shrink 2 years ago at gencon. i raised my hand to bid. i was working on something else at the time so i wasn't paying a lot of attention, so when i heard the auction had gotten up to $500, i decided to drop out. i looked up to see who was still bidding. he was across the whole room from me, and he looked young (maybe 20), but he looked a little stunned (and pale white) when he realized how much he had just spent....  i eventually won one last year in the 200-300 range (i forget the exact amount).

  

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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:01 am 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:


** expired eBay auction **


So now we get to the main point of this thread.
I was the person who BIN'ed that set.
Yep... I agree that the listing had almost no description.
I knew I was taking a small gamble… with a Next to Zero Description.

The comments above tell me that all of you feel this set is not worth anywhere close to the $65 I paid for it (plus $5 shipping).

So, for me to get my money back from this set, I would have to re-sell and lie by omission, or demand a full refund from the seller.

Seller has offered a $15 refund in part (I keep the set as is and must leave poss feedback).
That would be a $50 price plus $5 shipping.
About twice the value of this set as some above indicated.

Or a full refund with shipping both ways (Again must leave poss feedback).




Gnat one of the problems with getting appraisels is that you have two viewpoints, the collector and the retailer. Most of the people here are collectors, some who sell parts of their collections (some on a regular basis) but they appraise low, because if you know what you are doing you can get most game items fairly cheap with patience.



The retailer looks at these items in the opposite way. They know you can sell almost any rare item for a relatively high dollar amount with patience.



Collectors tend to liquidate, they look for quick sales, tend to use auctions or bins that undercut all the competing bins for the same item. A lot of retailers push the envelope on prices and stress condition to justify higher prices than competing items (a completely valid argument, I always got top dollar for even common items like Dragon mags if they were in excellent condition)



For quick sales, the appraisels Ive seen here tend to be low but you will sell that item. For retailer prices and appraisels at those prices, I don't think you will find appraisels like that here, but those kind of prices can be researched.



The general rule is that you cannot ask too much for an item (it wont sell but you will attract interest) but if you ask too little then that item is gone and you arent going to get the top dollar. If it doesnt sell you can wait for the right customer, or lower the price, and you always have the option of selling it dirt cheap. But start out dirt cheap and you throw away all other options.

  

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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:17 am 
 

Badmike wrote:So how much would a SW copy be worth??????
Mike B.


I do not know, but:


** expired eBay auction **


rabbit_67's purchase price was $165, for the latest Sealed Copy of Outdoor Geomorph's Set One: Walled City.


faro wrote:
Count me out of "all", please, given the incomplete example I cited.


So noted ...

Removing faro from the All list stated above...  8)





Jason:

So, are you telling me to sit on this set for a few years and sell with a BIN like the seller did with me?

Or would you instead take a $15 refund to keep the set as a collectable, OR send it back for the full refund, including shipping BOTH ways?



I am leaning VERY heavily towards the later choice myself.

Did not intend to BIN a cut set with ink and pencil writing and other issues.

I BIN'ed what I thought (From a terribly incomplete desription and a single picture) was a complete set with only minor issues... if any.



Here is the bottom line for me:

1) All 11 sheets totally cut

2) Ink on all but two of the cut pieces

3) Pencil on two pieces

4) the small tear/rip on the 4 page thingy

5) crumpled pages on the cover and 4 page thingy



If I had known about all of those issues, then there is no doubt that someone else would own this set now, Not me.


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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:36 am 
 

I think Jason nailed the price issue that causes too many arguments.

The price you can get is a function of time and condition.  If you don't invest the time, you will likely not get the price.  (Although sometimes you can get lucky).  If you shop for a long time, you can usually save a lot of money.  Retailers simply manage that spread and invest time and money to profit.  

For instance, I have a few copies of TSR Worlds.  Sitting on the yields $30-35, but I have one sitting at auction at $3.25.  It may well sell for under $5 or might shoot higher.  I have no control over the price when I control the time by ending the sale at a point in time.  

I would send your copy back and leave positive feedback to get my $65 and try again on something else.


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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:59 am 
 

Another thing to note in case some of you do not know it.
I am a collector, Not an investor, nor am I a combination of Investor/Collector as many of you are.
IMO they are different things altogether.
Even though I do sometimes sell stuff (especially in the past few months), I do so to raise money to buy other stuff, or for other RPG related reasons (Such as NTRPGCON).
Most times the item I have listed is an extra copy that I have for some reason, usually an item that was part of a larger lot of things, or a single item I saw listed at a low price, knowing I could re-sell for a bit more and thereby have a bit more to spend on other stuff.

That said, I do not mind overpaying (sometimes) for a rare item that is seldom listed as long as it is a good quality example of that item.
What I would consider good collector grade.
Does not have to be SWed, in fact most times it wont be, which I do not mind.
I have always collected in that manner.

IMO, this copy of Walled City is NOT nearly good enough of an example to be collector grade and the seller misled me (and perhaps others too) with an almost non-existant description.


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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:39 pm 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:Another thing to note in case some of you do not know it.
I am a collector, Not an investor, nor am I a combination of Investor/Collector as many of you are.
IMO they are different things altogether.
Even though I do sometimes sell stuff (especially in the past few months), I do so to raise money to buy other stuff, or for other RPG related reasons (Such as NTRPGCON).
Most times the item I have listed is an extra copy that I have for some reason, usually an item that was part of a larger lot of things, or a single item I saw listed at a low price, knowing I could re-sell for a bit more and thereby have a bit more to spend on other stuff.

That said, I do not mind overpaying (sometimes) for a rare item that is seldom listed as long as it is a good quality example of that item.
What I would consider good collector grade.
Does not have to be SWed, in fact most times it wont be, which I do not mind.
I have always collected in that manner.

IMO, this copy of Walled City is NOT nearly good enough of an example to be collector grade and the seller misled me (and perhaps others too) with an almost non-existant description.


Gnat, my advice based on what you have said is to return it for a full and complete refund.

  


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Post Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:58 pm 
 

I would follow Jason's advice.  If you are not happy with the item as a collectible and if the seller is amenable to you returning it, then go ahead and send it back.  There will always be others. :)


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