Bill Owen Q&A
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Post Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:28 am 
 

Bracton wrote:Not to talk out of school . . . that would be stratochamp.  Coming just ahead of tfm.


I thought tfm didnt collect D&D related items anymore?   :lol:   I was very surprised it didnt go for more than the final price.  I figured it would top out around a thousand $ for sure.


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:30 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:I was very surprised it didnt go for more than the final price.  I figured it would top out around a thousand $ for sure.


I agree.  I had expected $900 at the low end.  This is the oldest surviving copy of what is arguably the most important city of the classic D&D era.  The closest analogy would be to an original floorplan of Castle Greyhawk.  One would have expected it to go for much more than, for example, some of the modules of questionable quality that sell for a small fortune due solely to rarity.  :P  Another victim of the economy, perhaps?


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:30 am 
 

Plaag wrote:Should frame that map.

Yep; that's what's I'd plan to do.
And I'd said the same to myself on several previous occasions... oops.

Nice win, Bill, 'grats: I know you'll do the job properly. :)

Bracton wrote:I agree.  I had expected $900 at the low end.  This is the oldest surviving copy of what is arguably the most important city of the classic D&D era.  The closest analogy would be to an original floorplan of Castle Greyhawk.

You hit the nail on the head there with "copy". Respectfully, I've never seen "oldest copy" be considered in the same light as "original", even if the originals or any other older copies no longer exist: therefore, I wouldn't draw any analogy (to Greyhawk City, rather than Castle?) on that score any more than I would a proof copy of Tegel to a not-quite-so-desirable ms. original.

That said, it's undoubtedly a good buy at the price. Hopefully you didn't frighten anyone off with your $1k+ estimate off the back of the early bidding when that certainly wasn't the intention here.

Bracton wrote:One would have expected it to go for much more than, for example, some of the modules of questionable quality that sell for a small fortune due solely to rarity.  :P  Another victim of the economy, perhaps?

Wouldn't have said so, if using your own analogy, given that the price paid is actually more than a level from Castle Greyhawk's floorplan.

Published mods do tend to command a better price relative to rarity than mss., originals, proofs, etc. in this marketplace because it means fighting over limited "resources" with a known origin rather than trying to guess the worth of a one-off item which no-one can up the ante on in order to increase resale value. Might not make sense, but that's the way it seems to go and unlikely to change from past experience.

Having said that, if you're comparing with... oh, let's say ST1... I might hesitate for approximate 25 milliseconds before agreeing with your particular comparison. ;)

02c/ymmv, anyhow,
David. :)

*off to buy shares in UV glass companies*


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:51 am 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:

I thought tfm didnt collect D&D related items anymore?   :lol:  





** expired/removed eBay auction **




well tfm is just RUBBISH at not buying D&D stuff :wink:  8O


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:57 am 
 

[OT]
gyg wrote:well tfm is just RUBBISH at not buying D&D stuff :wink:  8O

*g* Good spot! Yeah, tell me about it, Carl; viewtopic.php?p=148615#148615 ;)

(And still not quite sure how to reconcile that site price update since then with those copies selling for $2k+ previously, to say nothing of "+50%" being a way OTT markup IMHO for SW on certain items such as oB3s and 10th Anniversary box sets - especially when that's shredded and torn, or warping the book :)).


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:57 pm 
 

As suggested by Bob Jr, I have had the local blueprint shop make copies of the original map that just sold for $749... and we are making a limited edition available to JG fans as a "reprint" (144 copies). Bob Jr. and I are signing them also... and making this a little fun/d raising project.



When I made my limited edition history book, I had a store buy up dozens so don't miss it by waiting around on Uranus wondering when and whether.

You can find it here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :MESELX:IT



*I gave Bob Jr. #1 and the buyer of the original map, Mr. X, #2 and is my tradition, I will only keep the map that I ruin by stepping on it or ripping it.


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:56 pm 
 

I don't remember seeing anything in the auction for the original that copies were going to be made for sale.  I hope the buyer had fore knowledge of this.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:18 pm 
 

I wondered this myself. Though the new item is clearly that (new) I cannot help but feel that this slightly dilutes the desirability  of the 'real deal' (see Faro's post above). That having been said, this will always be a fairly contentious subject and really comes down to diversity of opinion - 'do copies harm.... blah,blah,blah etc ad infinitum'.
Arguments on both sides of this are usually quite compelling, and I've never reallly decided one way or another, mainly because it's not something that will ever impact me personally :roll: .
I would hope though, that this new fun/d raising venture was made clear to the buyer at the time.


edited due to putting seller instead of buyer- d'oh


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Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:22 pm 
 

leadjunkie wrote:I don't remember seeing anything in the auction for the original that copies were going to be made for sale.  I hope the buyer had fore knowledge of this.


Why? The auction was for a specific copy not reprint or copyrights?

  

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:31 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
Why? The auction was for a specific copy not reprint or copyrights?


A very fair comment, of course. There can be no argument that this is absolutely the case.
But glad it wasn't my $750. 8O


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:33 am 
 

gyg wrote:I wondered this myself. Though the new item is clearly that (new) I cannot help but feel that this slightly dilutes the desirability  of the 'real deal' (see Faro's post above). That having been said, this will always be a fairly contentious subject and really comes down to diversity of opinion - 'do copies harm.... blah,blah,blah etc ad infinitum'.
Arguments on both sides of this are usually quite compelling, and I've never reallly decided one way or another, mainly because it's not something that will ever impact me personally :roll: .
I would hope though, that this new fun/d raising venture was made clear to the buyer at the time.


edited due to putting seller instead of buyer- d'oh


I would disagree about copies doing harm.

They will only refer people back to the original. And since we all know who has it, it's a good thing...


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:27 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
Why? The auction was for a specific copy not reprint or copyrights?


I really can't add anything further to the sentiment than was stated by gyg, except to say that if I had been a bidder I would have wanted to known the publisher's intention if those intentions were set before the auction.  It certainly would have effected my bidding.

We all have differing opinions on what constitutes a unique item.  :D

  

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:39 pm 
 

Invincible Overlord wrote:
I would disagree about copies doing harm.

They will only refer people back to the original. And since we all know who has it, it's a good thing...

I concur with this position. There is little evidence that copies of items in any form has harmed the underlying value of any collectables in the marketplace.


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:06 pm 
 

And Mr. X and I have already corresponded and so far I can tell from email he's okay with the reprint. Plus he has a satisfaction guarantee for a full refund for any reason at all.

Thanks to all who have ordered already. The first 2 orders made it out this morning before the post office closed for the day. More will go out Monday.


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:59 pm 
 

All this shoulda coulda talk has got me to thinking about what to do with this image. And I got a question via ebay message who I assume reads this forum also. So you're welcome to give me feedback on these iterations:

1. Original map: ...SOLD to Mr. X 11/24/09. There is no other map like it known to exist since the building will be gutted, if the workers find one in the ceiling (where we used to put tube stuff like this!) aren't likely to appreciate it.

2. Signed/numbered full-size (34x44") print edition... 21 of 144 sold to date. And with a store buying some, we could reach the half way point soon. I will arbitrarily increase the price at some point to reward the early birds who bought (it's good to be the king!) But if not all sold out, I will lay off Woody and cut off sales @30 days regardless. There's a fair amount of handling associated with this and I already work multiple jobs.

3. Cafe Press: 2010. 50% scale i.e. 22x34" unsigned and unnumbered... $50. No end for print run since its a robotic print-on-demand process. This low wattage funding helps Bob and I keep off-beat items in print and lunch money every month or two.

4. PDF of map image: 2010. Price similar to printed map. I know it could be less costly but it's a fund raising project for Bob and I of a unique item after all.

5. Finally, the map will be featured on several pages, full size in the coffee-table book (11x13" approx.) that has been talked about for about a year. This book may also be a limited edition or just a print on demand... not sure which yet.

This way, y'all can figure out which edition appeals the most and not feel bamfoozled for having to buy it twice due to lack of forewarning. I hope this posting will humanize (ogreize?) my position as hobby ogre for not anticipating all this earlier.


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:35 pm 
 

No Name City map reprint's price increased from $25 to 29 tonight. 40 maps sold to date to individuals, 2 awarded and 14 to hobby shop.

Will stop selling on 12/27/09 or at 144th map sold, whichever comes first.

One guy's shipping tube got crushed and map mangled, so I will replace that. If your map got wrecked, let me know and I will fix it.

Anyone who is not satisfied need not have a reason, remember that there's a money-back guarantee, just me know.

PS tomorrow morning I will finish clearing out my building that housed the 1st Judges Guild office, lock the door and close on the building's sale. The 'real' City State will be abandoned, deserted and possibly gutted--that will be up to the new owners. I will be just 2 blocks away and will report on this "historic" site's next chapter.


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:27 pm 
 

I can't seem to get my private message responses so I am posting in the clear for John:



Sorry for the delay in responding. We just moved our office so it has been Lawful Chaos here the last several days--with the coldest weather of the year. You can still find them on eBay through Christmas at:




** expired/removed eBay auction **
Name=STRK:MESELX:IT



The price is $29 per map plus about $5 for shipping. Thanks for your interest and support!

And Doug:



Yes, that's the number. Will redo and mail asap.



From: LL, The Wizard of Dale


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:26 pm 
 

FYI, with just 1 hour and 20 minutes left to go on the limited edition reprint of the original City State map, looks like we have sold 80! I want to thank everyone who bought one (or two!)

I had hoped to announce new nostalgia items but with my daughter home for Christmas, I have been having fun instead! Including making a flier for her business... so still engaged in the graphic arts regardless.


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