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Post Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:09 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:

IO: Your mailed #7 include the letter?


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Yes the letter is present.

Judges Guild detectives are at it again, this is a return to the 'older days'


*packs beautifully carved Dunhill pipe and asks Watson for our copies of the Dungeoneer*   :D  :wink:

Faro wrote:

@IO: Would I be correct in guessing that there's no "SB02MAU013" written on that copy of #1, above?


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Correct.

i.e. That it was either purchased in advance or sent out as a freebie single issue to Mr.(?) Mauzey and their actual subscription started from issue #2. Ditto for Tadashi's.


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Yes, subscriptions pick up here with #2. Not sure if our #1 was complentary or purchased in advance via a preorder from a convention or another publication.
Does anyone know of a Bill Mauzely and why he may have been influential enough for a complementary copy?

Another copy of issue #1 like this was sold in an auction of Paul's. It was addressed to a TRS alum. I can't remember to who, but I remember it went cheep. Anyone know the auction I'm talking about?

Having dug out #5 & 6 here, #5 has "SB05WAGN103": i.e. not picking up subscribers at a huge rate if I read that correctly and difficult to explain "over 200" by #6 save through the number of new subscribers that may have been accumulating whilst that issue was busy being late...

Mailing date for #5: July 30, 1977
#6: Dec 22, 1977 (same recipient, no subscriber code)
Check?


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#5 here has June 30, 1977 if I'm reading the stamp right…

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And #6 back on track with December 22, 1977.


"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."


Last edited by invincibleoverlord on Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:03 pm 
 

As a side note into the research I've aligned the intended issue dates with the actual ones. Also the mailing dates.

Issue #1 intended:   July -- August  76.  Cover states: July -- August    76*

*reprint only. The 1st print #1 does not state #1 or July --August.

Mailed on June 29, 1976

My thoughts here are when Paul reprinted #1 he included what would have been the original Bi-monthly months coinciding with issue #1.

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The above is from the back page of issue #3 stating a reprint of issue #1 and also apologizing for the magazine falling behind schedule. Here, issue #3 calendared to be Nov -- Dec 76, but labeled Nov- Dec- Jan, and mailed Jan 5, 77.

So reprinted #1's come after this date? Do either of you guys have dated mailed copies of the 2nd print? Or is it stated somewhere in the text March 77 for the second print? It states it will be out in a couple of weeks, but as seen here, things lean twords months late.

Issue #2 intended: September - October   76. Cover states: September -- October 76

Mailed on October 8, 1976

Issue #3 intended: November - December  76.  Cover states: Nov -- Dec -- Jan (no year given)

Mailed on January 5, 1977

Issue #4 intended: January -- February 77.  Cover states: February  - March 1977

Mailed on March 12, 1977

Issue #5 intended: March -- April 77. Cover states: April -- May 1977

Mailed on June 30, 1977

Issue# 6 intended: May -- June 77. Cover states: June- July- August- September- October- November -- December 1977

Mailed on December 22, 1977

This is where I believe the magazine became to much for just Paul.  Here the zine falls 6 months behind schedule. And the back page states the Fantastic Dungeoneering Society will no longer be publishing the zine.

Issue #7 intended: July - August  77. Cover states: March -- April 78.

Mailed on ???  bulk rate stamp -- no date given.

Issue #8 intended: Setember - October  77. Cover states: May -- June 1978

Mailed on ???   newsstand copy with no mailing information.



"Its either a wand to cast Bigby's Hand spells or a +3 backscratcher. We're not sure which."


Last edited by invincibleoverlord on Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:59 pm 
 

#1 2nd print has March 1977 near the end of the Publishers' Statement.
My copy was not mailed.

At the back of #4 Paul states he intended to have #4 and reprint #1 out at the end of Jan, but states: 'Here it is now the middle of March...'

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:38 am 
 

Good spot Plaag...That definately ties into the second printings given date.

Could you post a photo of the Publishers Statement with the second printing date? I'm guessing it's the same Publishers statement from the 1st print issue #1 above with Second Printing March 77 added?

Now if we could varafy a true third printing with the August date.

8)


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Last edited by invincibleoverlord on Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:28 am 
 

One other quick note about issue #1. Granted, while not being a true module, it does contain a published scenario. F'chelrak's Tomb is a complete adventure. So going by the issue date of July - August 76 that would put it's publacation only one month after the Palace of the Vampire queen. Going by the mailing date and thier the same month... 8O

Just a cool side note for those interested.  :)

It would be cool to have a list of published scenario's from The Blackmoor supplement's "Temple of the Frog" (september 75) up to the PotVQ (June 76)

There would only be a handful of them. I'll check what publacation's we have from this time period. The best bets would be Arlums and Excursions, The Space Gamer, The Wild Hunt?, Owl and Weasel... not too many given this early of a date.  :roll:



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Post Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:39 am 
 

Paul (Collector's Trove) on Mar 9th, 2005 sold The Dungeoneer Issue 1 (Addressed to Mike Carr) as part of the Timothy M. Jiardini Collection.

As for Publisher's Statement from #1 2nd I'll post that when I get a chance.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:41 am 
 

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Dungeoneers 1 and 2 Both 2nd prints Publishers Statements.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:09 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:

Paul (Collector's Trove) on Mar 9th, 2005 sold The Dungeoneer Issue 1 (Addressed to Mike Carr) as part of the Timothy M. Jiardini Collection.


That was the one Shane. Good memory. I remember it having the "dungeoneer" in the drooping banner as well. I wonder what printing it was? I fumbled my snipe of a couple hundred, as well did a few others (iirc), and a member here  :roll: walked with the copy for $60 or so bucks.

Thanks

And thanks for those Publisher's Statements. Notice the change from the 1st prints Bi-monthly, to - As close to Bi-monthly as possible.

Mike


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:02 pm 
 

Well I got a pretty good size email from Mr Paul Jaquays (hopefully have this up on the site by this weekend)

Anyway somethings from it: "First magazine...a 5.5" x
8.5" (half-size) saddle-stitched magazine on white bond paper with
a tan cover stock cover" as for 2nd print: "The reprint of the first issue of the magazine has yellow cover stock and printed by Arrowswift Printing of Jackson, Michigan (whom I later worked for as a paste-up artist) because they did not use a tan cover stock."

"We mailed a good share of that original print run to people whose names we retrieved from similar publications."

As to the numbering code: "I don't remember what those numbers mean. I can take a wild guess though.  SB02 might mean subscription beginning with issue #2. The letters could be from the subscriber's last name or a combo of initial and last name). The final number was probably a sequential number assigned to subscribers. Thus, James Ward may have been either SB02JWAR001 or SB02WARD001 (as he was the first subscriber)."

I need to ask about hand written labels, but this is what was said about the mailing dates "Generally speaking, all issues of a print run were mailed to
existing subscribers on a single day. We would type up addresses on
labels, stick the labels on then go buy postage and mail them out.
When a magazine was shipped, new subscribers usually get the most
recent magazine available as quickly as we could send them out."

I'm thinking having a page listing the numbering run of these would be cool, as the 1st subscriber and #13, #35 (don't have the full name on this though) are known.

If you have any questions you'd like asked though, post away as i'll send out another email or two by tomorrow.

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:06 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:

Well I got a pretty good size email from Mr Paul Jaquays (hopefully have this up on the site by this weekend)


Great work Shane… Paul is a swell guy to chat with. And he seems quite helpful here!

Anyway somethings from it: "First magazine...a 5.5" x
8.5" (half-size) saddle-stitched magazine on white bond paper with
a tan cover stock cover" as for 2nd print: "The reprint of the first issue of the magazine has yellow cover stock and printed by Arrowswift Printing of Jackson, Michigan (whom I later worked for as a paste-up artist) because they did not use a tan cover stock."


Seems to be the case… But no mention of a third printing? I think we need to verify a copy. Assuming the clues, again it would have the first prints cover with a different colored paper, and 3rd printing stated in the Publisher's Statement? Could you run this by Paul? Maybe he could shed some light on this?

"We mailed a good share of that original print run to people whose names we retrieved from similar publications."

As to the numbering code: "I don't remember what those numbers mean. I can take a wild guess though.  SB02 might mean subscription beginning with issue #2. The letters could be from the subscriber's last name or a combo of initial and last name). The final number was probably a sequential number assigned to subscribers. Thus, James Ward may have been either SB02JWAR001 or SB02WARD001 (as he was the first subscriber)."


Memory serves Paul well here… It matches the subscription code for both Ehara and Mauzey.

The subscription beginning with - SB02

First four letters of subscribers name -- EHAR and MAUZ

And the subscriber # - 013 and 035

#SB02MAUZ013 and #SB02EHAR035

I need to ask about hand written labels, but this is what was said about the mailing dates "Generally speaking, all issues of a print run were mailed to
existing subscribers on a single day. We would type up addresses on
labels, stick the labels on then go buy postage and mail them out.
When a magazine was shipped, new subscribers usually get the most
recent magazine available as quickly as we could send them out."


It flows with current information of same mailing dates, and slight variances like David's issue #5 (subscriber #SB05WAGN103) having a mailing date of July 30, 77.

Here the subscription starts with issue #5 (SB05) and was obviously ordered and mailed after previous subscribers issues mailed on June 30, 77. Then this subscriber's issue #6 catches up and is mailed on the same date December 22, 77 with current subscriptions.

I'm thinking having a page listing the numbering run of these would be cool, as the 1st subscriber and #13, #35 (don't have the full name on this though) are known.


That would be cool.

If you have any questions you'd like asked though, post away as i'll send out another email or two by tomorrow.


Just about the third print #1


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Post Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:25 pm 
 

Well awaiting reply, though was told he thinks only 1 and 2 were reprinted, and I've no response from Adrian yet about the 3rd print or 2nd prints of 3/4 for that matter.

And the age old question if he'd ever draw or write again I asked and got this: "Not likely to happen. I still work in games as an artist which
fulfills 95% of my creative needs. If I want to do something else,
I've got more projects than time. And, I haven't regularly played
pencil & paper RPGs in over 20 years."  :( Oh well guess we just have to enjoy what he has drawn/written.

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Post Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:45 pm 
 

And slightly off topic, mailed vs unmailed (Fanzines, catalogs, magazines, etc) is there more or less value for a shipping label (or is it with only certain things)?

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Post Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:56 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:And slightly off topic, mailed vs unmailed (Fanzines, catalogs, magazines, etc) is there more or less value for a shipping label (or is it with only certain things)?

ShaneG.


i think its all down to a person in general.

for a collector, it kinda has a more historical-fits-in-the-jigsaw feel about it if you ask me, as you have dates and other little things that fit into research.

dunno if it adjusts the value as such tho...

Al


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Post Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:29 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
i think its all down to a person in general.

for a collector, it kinda has a more historical-fits-in-the-jigsaw feel about it if you ask me, as you have dates and other little things that fit into research.

dunno if it adjusts the value as such tho...

Al


Yeah, I was thinking for these Dungeoneers its great, but then do others actually see it as marring the product much like people think signatures have a greater or lesser value to things.

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Post Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:32 pm 
 

Well finally got in touch with Adrian, so should have visual evidence when he sends scans tomorrow, also Mr Jaquays shall have some more to the last batch of questions I sent him.

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Post Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:54 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:
Yeah, I was thinking for these Dungeoneers its great, but then do others actually see it as marring the product much like people think signatures have a greater or lesser value to things.

ShaneG.


yeah thats what i was thinking - pretty much along exactly the same line. most would prb consider it defaced.

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Post Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:08 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:

Well awaiting reply, though was told he thinks only 1 and 2 were reprinted, and I've no response from Adrian yet about the 3rd print or 2nd prints of 3/4 for that matter.


Cool. I can't wait to see the replies. I'm having fun with this. Glad to be part of hammering out this printing order with you guys.

And the age old question if he'd ever draw or write again I asked and got this: "Not likely to happen. I still work in games as an artist which
fulfills 95% of my creative needs. If I want to do something else,
I've got more projects than time. And, I haven't regularly played
pencil & paper RPGs in over 20 years."    Oh well guess we just have to enjoy what he has drawn/written.


I know… I'd love to see what he'd come up with nowadays. But like you said Shane, we'll just enjoy what's already been done.

-

Here's a thought I had in us deciding what issue was the rarest. Looking back over the thread both issues #1 and #6 were both put forth for various reasons as the hardest to find.  

But, in light of the subscriber information given by Paul, would you think the 1st print #2 being the rarest of the issues?

Here's what I'm driving at --

Paul wrote:

"We mailed a good share of that original print run (referring to issue #1) to people whose names we retrieved from similar publications."


So after the initial 1st issue - which I'm guessing after reading the above was free, or alot were free, and used to solicit the zine? Maybe you could verify this with Paul. The second issue, now subscribed to, would most likely have a smaller circulation than #1. Printing and mailing just enough issues for the people who subscribed? There could be substantially less #2's than the initial free #1.

Highest subscriber # so far with SB02 subscription beginning with issue #2 is 35. That being Tadashi Ehara (SB02EHAR035)

Thoughts?


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Post Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:45 pm 
 

Subscriptions: "At least 200 I think."

# printed: "I think I was printing about 500-600 copies at the end. I turned all
my receipts and subscriber records over to Chuck Anshell when I sold
the magazine. Print runs were based on how many we thought we could
distribute. Early print runs were necessarily small. We reprinted only
when there was demand."

1st Magazine: "We sent the first magazine out "blind", hoping that people would like it and subscribe. A surprising number did. And even with that, we got actual angry letters from people for sending it to them (apparently in those days, folks disliked D&D because it wasn't historical based gaming, not because it was destroying the youth of America)."

Maybe some #1 1sts found there way into the trash?? But yeah I'd say #2 became the starting point, then it grew from there. He didn't send out all of the 1st's though as they could be ordered as a back issue. Also with reprints that would make up for the late subscribers who would then try to back order any of the magazines. (Still awaiting the reply to some other questions, now if only I can get in touch with Chuck Anshell somehow..)

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