Early JG items discussion
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Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:05 am 
 

#1 Judges Map (just facts)

(Non-Yellow Swamp No Copyright)
(Yellow Swamp No Copyright)
(Hammermill Bond With Copyright)

Hammermill Bond With Copyright are smaller in scale then either Non Yellow and Yellow Swamp maps
Cryptic Citadel - outer wall to outer wall on non copyright maps is 4 1/4"
Cryptic Citadel - outer wall to outer wall on Hammermill Bond map is 4 3/16"
Size difference corrisponds throughout, lettered and numbered scales along edge, holding up both and trying to line them up.
Hammermill Bond map's lettered or numbered scale along edge is 3" each, Noncopyright map's are 3 1/16"

Conclusion #1 Hammermill Bond map is ever slightly smaller (2% smaller)

'I-12 section' on non copyright maps has a broken line between 'twilight road' and 'WEST' on the '8' numbered side scale.
Hammermill Bond does not.

Both Non copyright maps have broken line above the second 't' in 'State'
Hammermill Bond does not.

Hammermill Bond maps have 'blotches' throughout various portions of forest in the same places and patterns.
Non copyright maps do not

Hammermill Bond map has map scale.

Non copyright Maps have clearer detail for the city/casle walls, hill/cliff faces.
Hammermill Bond maps have thicker coast lines, city/castle walls nearly filled in.

ShaneG.

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:33 am 
 

Observation

#1 Hammermill Bond map is alomst dead on twice the size of #4 17x22 map

#1 Non Copyright Maps are ever so slightly more then twice the size of #4 4 section Map

Opinion

#'0' Journal I Copyright 1976
#1 GenCon Print No Copyright
#1 2nd Print No Copyright
#1 3rd Print Copyright 1976
#2 1st print TSR copyright
#3 (Sept) White No Copyright
#3 (Oct) Brown Copyright 1976
#4 4 section No Copyright
#4 17x22 Copyright 1976
#5 (Site's Middle Print) TSR copyright
#5 (Site's Yellow Print) TSR copyright
#5 (3rd Print from #14) TSR copyright
#6 (Site's Middle Print) TSR copyright
#6 (Site's Yellow Print) TSR copyright
#6 (3rd Print from #14) TSR copyright
#7 (Site's Middle Print) TSR copyright
#7 (Site's Yellow Print) TSR copyright
#7 (3rd Print from #14) TSR copyright
#8 1st print No Copyright
#8 2nd print Copyright 1976
#9 (No Copy or Scan to compare)
#10 Copyright 1976
#12 (Early 1977)
#15 Copyright 1976 Non Hammermill Bond
#15 Copyright 1976 Hammermill Bond
#16 (Dec) Copyright 1976
#17 Copyright 1976
Journal J (Dec) Copyright 1976

#1 No Copyright map matches #1 yellow swamp No Copyright in every detail (save the yellow highlight swamp)

#1 yellow swamp No Copyright matches #4 4 section No Copyright (in that swamps are yellow, neither has a scale, 'For use with Dungeons & Dragons')

#4 4 section No Copyright matches #4 17x22 Copyright 1976 (in that coastline is the same, 'blotches are the same', broken line above second 't' in 'state')

#4 17x22 Copyright 1976 matches #1 Hammermill Bond Copyright 1976 (in that both have a scale, 'blotches are the same', Hammermill Bond paper, 'For use with Fantasy/Role-Playing Games')

#4 4 section No Copyright state in Journal I
#4 17x22 Copyright 1976 stated in Journal J

Subs sold at GenCon should include only the #1 GenCon release map and #3 No Copyright since no other subs would possibly be sold till after JG ad was seen in Dragon #3 (shipped 1st of the month for October 1976)

Dragon #3 and Dragon #4 state in ad for Initial Guild Member Package (not Sub as sold at GenCon IX): 'A total of 25 pages of material, charts & rules, 135 cards and 1 34x44" map will be sent to you upon joining!'

25 pages of material = Booklet I No copyright (16pgs), 4 section No Copyright map (4pgs), #8 1st print No Copyright Dungeon Maps (5pgs)
charts & rules = #5, #6, #7 (Site's Middle Print) TSR copyright
135 cards = #2 1st print TSR copyright
1 34x44" map = #1 2nd Print No Copyright

After releasing GenCon IX Subs, request for more maps of #1 needed, though printer messes up and produces #9 (If this has yellow swamps or not, the corrected batch could possibly be smaller since cash would be spent buying #9, when #1 was truely wanted and yet eventually bought)

Journal I is written sometime in October, after Dragon 3 ad (since no mention of newsletters until Dragon 5 ad) yet before #3 Copyright 1976 since no mention of Errata (which happens to appear in Journal J)

Thunderhold shipped in Dec 1976 (probably written sometime in Nov)

#10 printed in late Dec 1976

Ad for both Thunderhold and presumed #10 being 40 pages shipped late Nov/Dec for a suspected February Dragon (But Dragon goes to 8 issues a year now, and changes its schedule..next magazine is actually March for #5)

#5, #6, #7 (Site's Middle Print) TSR copyright could be 1st prints: seeing as the first in sequence I-6 is white apper stock like #4 4 sections and #8 1st print and the other two are same stock paper (I-7 is also different from other's of the same Ref Sheet)
#5, #6, #7 (Site's Yellow Print) TSR copyright paper stock matching close to #17 paper's stock could be around that time.

#1 Hammermill is the largest print run of the CSIO maps (used for Initial installments, #12 CSIO play Aid, #1 blue cover sheet sets) so should be seen most often.

Opinions are mine with credit to others for their ideas and thoughts (and in no way is a challenge as being my own original thought..not everything written here was thought by me, but for sake of writing this I did not annote where another had thought of the idea or comment - you know who you are  :) )

The sites history etc isn't going to be changed till a concensus can be reached as to some of this early history..and I would be grateful if another would care to take up that mantle of writing it..I F it up to many times I realy don't want to touch it at this time. (yet I'm a writer..go figure... :roll: )

This post is long enough, fight my opinion as you wish, but overall have I not FUBARed this one at least?

(Don't answer please)
(NO seriously just let me think something above was written with good thought.)

ShaneG.
(F***, k yeah write something)
(Oh and I maybe getting more info regarding the above...shall see)

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Post Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:43 pm 
 

First thanks to Tom Wargo (About 2 years ago now he picked up installments 'I' through 'X' in one auction on eBay. The seller accurately described the set as having read once as each installment arrived, then bagged and stored.)

Well To start off, from his Initial Subscription:
Journal I
1. 34x44" City Map (4 sections)
2. 135 Dugeon Tac Cards
3. Initial Guidelines Booklet 'I' (16 pages)
4. Players' City Map
5. Six charts- (5) Men Attacking & (1) Monsters Attacking
6. Six charts- (5) Chainmail & (1) Monsters Attacking
7. Six Monsters Attacking Charts
8. Dungeon Levels I 1-5

Journal I has page numbers
#1 is Hammermill Bond
#2 is 1st print (Shall have to change that page now since his is near identical to mine and well those #s listed for 1st were taken from WD #3 Nov77 so I suspect are the 2nd prints counts - also WD#3 does not state different color cards)
#3 is Brown cover
#4 is 17x22" map
#5/6/7 are same yellow stock
#8 is 2nd prints I-1/I-2/I-4 same color, I-3/I-5 lighter color but same

Now do to Tom, he discovered something I missed: The 'Move' pink Tac card has a map scale on its side for small and large maps.
Now he checked (latter I did) and the large map scale does not match the Hammermill Bond, yet the small map scale matches the players 17x22 map.

Facts concerning 'pink' Tac Card large scale: 2 5/16" = 360'
Facts concerning 'pink' Tac Card small scale: 1 2.5/16" = 360'
Facts concerning Hammermill Bond map large scale: 2 1/4" = 360'
Facts concerning Hammermill Bond map small scale: 1 2.5/16" = 360'
*Facts concerning Mailing Card large scale: 2 5/16" = 360'
*Facts concerning Mailing Card small scale: 1 2.5/16" = 360'
(Edit: Facts concerning 'yellow' Tac Card large scale: 2 3/16" = 360'
Facts concerning 'yellow' Tac Card small scale: 1 1.5/16" = 360')

About a 2% difference from 'pink' Tac Card to HB map large scale (since Hammermill Bond is the smaller judge map, the scale would have to be larger)

ShaneG.

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