Tegel Manor
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Post Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:19 pm 
 

http://www.acaeum.com/jg/JudgesGuildOtherCompanies.html

They printed the maps with black ink on white paper to be easier to read. But yeah it has to be simply a photocopy of the map and not redrawn. (Maybe at some point I'll try and see if I can tell what printing this was photocopied from.)

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:54 am 
 

WereSteve wrote:http://www.acaeum.com/jg/OC-GameScienceTegelManor.html

Interesting, but you either you forgot to mention or didn't know that the Gamescience version of Tegel Manor as written is incomplete.  It does not contain all of the material in the original version published by Judges Guild as Gamescience was not provided with an original copy of the module, only an apparently incomplete photocopy from Bob Bledsaw's personal collection.  So when it came time to update the module ... oopsie.

Could you mention where these gaps are found? I have read both versions extensively, and didn't find them (except that GS took some creative liberties with things I wouldn't have - like the Tsathoggus cultists).

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:37 pm 
 

Melan wrote:Could you mention where these gaps are found? I have read both versions extensively, and didn't find them (except that GS took some creative liberties with things I wouldn't have - like the Tsathoggus cultists).


I don't remember the exact sections that are missing or otherwise skewed ... just that there were some discrepancies when it came time for Necro to do the 3.5 version, so they wound up having to use both and reconcile the differences.  That's one of the reasons the new release has been taking so long.

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:58 pm 
 

Melan's the one who did the conversion. :)



  

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Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:50 pm 
 

[W]hen it came time for Necro to do the 3.5 version, so they wound up having to use both and reconcile the differences.
Why would anyone bother to use the GameScience revision in making the conversion to 3.5?  You seem more than a little vague in your assertions.  :P

  

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:53 am 
 

WereSteve wrote:
I don't remember the exact sections that are missing or otherwise skewed ... just that there were some discrepancies when it came time for Necro to do the 3.5 version, so they wound up having to use both and reconcile the differences.  That's one of the reasons the new release has been taking so long.

I don't know what others added to my manuscript, but I did no such thing. I worked solely from the original JG version, and only read the GS edition to see how they did things. While I respect Niels Erickson (and consider him a better writer than myself), our approaches wouldn't mix well - his was slightly revisionist, mine is attempting to be as true to the OD&D legacy as physically possible for a d20 product.

This information is either mistaken, or I have been left out of the loop somewhere and the editors changed the entire direction of the project.

[edit]However, there are two rooms which are listed on the map but their descriptions aren't found in the JG product, making the original incomplete![/edit]

  

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:23 am 
 

Melan wrote:
[edit]However, there are two rooms which are listed on the map but their descriptions aren't found in the JG product, making the original incomplete![/edit]


For 1000 points, name those rooms :)
(Sorry Melan but you must sit out this round :wink: )

Wonder if Al would know this.

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Post Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:53 pm 
 

Melan wrote:This information is either mistaken, or I have been left out of the loop somewhere and the editors changed the entire direction of the project.


FWIW ... there was a recent request from Necro for a scanned/edited copy of the original JG version ... not sure what they have in mind.

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:36 am 
 

Aha. Well, I sent that version to Clark, so all should be well.  :)

  

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Post Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:42 pm 
 

So inquiring minds want to know -- what are the differences between the Gamescience Tegel Manor and the Judges Guild versions?

http://www.acaeum.com/jg/OC-GameScienceTegelManor.html
http://www.acaeum.com/jg/Item0027.html

I just got a copy of the Gamescience version but haven't seen inside any of the JG printings to compare.  The copy on the cover says it's "Revised and Expanded" but doesn't specify how.

I'd say the Universal System stats are probably a later addition, since the original version's for D&D, and then obviously there's the art by Niels Erikson on every other page.    But are there any other substantive differences?

  

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Post Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:56 pm 
 

Gamescience version has every room described in much more detail...Old Tegel was roughly 2-3 lines to describe each room, Gamescience uses 4-5 times that. The GS version also changes various creatures encountered, I assume due to not having TSR permission to use certain creatures.

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Post Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:57 pm 
 

That was a fast reply -- thank you!  

Looks like it's still worth looking for a copy of the older version, then.

  

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Post Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:01 pm 
 

When one discounts the emotional impact of owning the original product....

...I am quite impressed with my copy of the Gamescience version of Tegel Manor.


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Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:53 am 
 

Now that I know the original version only gave 2-3 lines of text per room, I appreciate my newly acquired Revised & Expanded all the more.  Erickson's art is not at all bad -- kind of Jeff Dee-like -- and if I were to run it someday I'd be happy to have the extra context for encounters.  

It's still pretty concise (or bare-bones) by modern standards.  That's what makes me curious to see how much was added!  And of course there's a historical value to the original that any collector can understand.

  

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Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:06 am 
 

You might be pleased to know that an updated to 3.5 version is scheduled to come out later this year.  It has stayed as close to the original as possible.  Rumor has it Necromancer is going to do full scale miniature maps of the manor.

  

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Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:01 am 
 

ST you aint really got a tegel til youve got one of the originals :)

but then, i would say that.

Al


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Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:31 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:ST you aint really got a tegel til youve got one of the originals :)

but then, i would say that.

Al


And of course you really only need one, unlike some of us :D

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Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:29 pm 
 

Al, Shane -- don't worry that I'll slack off!  My hand won't leave my sword-hilt till I've got a JG Tegel to call my own. :wink:

  
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