Modron (Q/A)
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Post Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:14 am 
 

hey guys

having a mental block this morning sheesh

Tegel Manor...can anyone just clarify the printings for me plz?

1st print: guideline booklet L - orange - with what i can remember - some slight print variations

2nd print: guideline booklet L - orange - with an insert, "TEGEL MANOR" $4.50 on it with a map

3rd print: blue A4 booklet

is that right? if so, 1st print is 1977, what years were 2nd/3rd released?

Modron - just a query in relation to the first print - Instalment booklet M. getting a complete one in next few days anyway, but i have a few here and just wanted to make sure they were complete.

Blue A5 booklet - what maps are meant to be with it? i have a blank map and a modron map....1 judges, 1 players? any other maps?

cheers

Al



  

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:53 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:Modron - Blue A5 booklet - what maps are meant to be with it? i have a blank map and a modron map....1 judges, 1 players? any other maps?


Installment M June/July 1977

1 copy The Judges Guild Journal - B4 size White
1 copy Guidelines Booklet M - B5 size Blue
1 copy Modron Players Map - B4 size Tan
1 copy Modron Judges Map - B3 size Tan


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:18 am 
 

Tegel
1st Printing: (1977) This has a darker orange cover and has a copyright font resembling Arial. Another distinguishing feature is that on the darker orange guidelines booklet, the word "Ende" appears above the skull on the back cover. Installment L lacks the title sheet with price, and lacks a Characters Checklist. The first edition, first print, was shipped with Journal L, 17" x 22" judges map, 11" x 17" players map to subscribers.

2nd Printing: (1977) This has a lighter orange cover and the copyright font is smaller and resembles Times/Times New Roman. Includes the flysheet with a cover price, 17" x 22" judges map, 11" x 17" players map and a Character Checklist. This is a rerun of the first printing and was sold as a stand alone product in a sealed transparent bag. (4 printings with minor variations such as coloring, etc)

3rd Printing: (1980) The format has changed to a standard and slightly larger book, with a color cover insert and the players 11"x17" map is now in color found in the center of the book.

Modron
Installment M includes Booklet M, City of Modron Maps (11" x 17" Judge map, 8.5" x 11" Player map), Journal M, Monstrous Statistics Compendium Sheet.

Followup Question: Anyone know if there was a flysheet/cover insert for the 1st print Modron Playing Aide?

ShaneG.

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Post Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:44 am 
 

Modron - Can you post a pic of the compendium sheet?


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:34 pm 
 

http://keltic71.tripod.com/LARGE/Otheri ... _back.html

Its the back of it, and from the old JG site. (I have a better scan of the front for the site)
Was given #35 when offered in sheets of 3.

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:05 am 
 

Plaag wrote:Modron
Installment M includes Booklet M, City of Modron Maps (11" x 17" Judge map, 8.5" x 11" Player map), Journal M, Monstrous Statistics Compendium Sheet.

Followup Question: Anyone know if there was a flysheet/cover insert for the 1st print Modron Playing Aide?

ShaneG.


i been talking about this item with ian, and i have to say, i am getting somewhat bemused by it all atm.

i have three 1st print modrons and about to get a 4th. all have come from diff sources all over the place and all of them came with exactly the same items with it, but none of them monster sheets. i read the booty list and i see what it says, but was it ever released that way?

does anyone else have a 1st print modron, complete with them monster sheets? did it definately get released with it?

now, where ian's came from, i highly doubt that it would have been incomplete, which is why i ask.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:24 pm 
 

Would be interested in knowing about that character cheklist you have with treasure vault..(highest number and all that).

Modron..(to throw out some possibilities) is there two versions of Booklet M perhaps much like Booklet L? (Thus something like Tegel 1st Installment L that lacks title sheet and ref sheet, and 2nd print which includes title sheet, ref sheet would exist)
1st print of Sea Steeds you made a good arguement, but if we can't discover anything supporting the Booklet M's without the sheet then I'm going to leave the 1st printing of Installment M as is.

We need Mr Bledsaw to crack this case.

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:15 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Would be interested in knowing about that character cheklist you have with treasure vault..(highest number and all that).

Modron..(to throw out some possibilities) is there two versions of Booklet M perhaps much like Booklet L? (Thus something like Tegel 1st Installment L that lacks title sheet and ref sheet, and 2nd print which includes title sheet, ref sheet would exist)
1st print of Sea Steeds you made a good arguement, but if we can't discover anything supporting the Booklet M's without the sheet then I'm going to leave the 1st printing of Installment M as is.

We need Mr Bledsaw to crack this case.

ShaneG.


could be that there are two variations shane. ian's modron came from burnie bros...so i highly doubt an item of theirs in that condition would be missing something.....

so yes i think a similar thing to the tegel is going on. i will look at the booklets to see if there are any differences too....

will sort the treasure vault on the back of the cover sheet with tegel shortly....

getting nagged here to look for things for my marathon  :?  brb...



  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:32 pm 
 

IIRC Tegel originally shipped sans Character Checklist with Installment L, and the checklist was then added along with the flysheet for sale to non-JGJ subscribers.

We see the same happening with CSIO as it is released to subscribers, so it would not be unreasonable to for Modron to have ship without the monster sheet to JGJ subscribers, and later have it added when it goes on general release.


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:45 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:IIRC Tegel originally shipped sans Character Checklist with Installment L, and the checklist was then added along with the flysheet for sale to non-JGJ subscribers.

We see the same happening with CSIO as it is released to subscribers, so it would not be unreasonable to for Modron to have ship without the monster sheet to JGJ subscribers, and later have it added when it goes on general release.


That is a good arguement. (Wish people kept those envelopes)
Still has me pondering if Modron ever had a flysheet. CSIO and Tegel have, even Thunderhold had a sales sheet. SO shall see who else cares to chime in.

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:26 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:We see the same happening with CSIO as it is released to subscribers, so it would not be unreasonable to for Modron to have ship without the monster sheet to JGJ subscribers, and later have it added when it goes on general release.

I'm missing the Monster Sheet in my subscriber copy of "M", fwiw.
Just two maps tucked inside the (unused) blue booklet.

Please don't take this as "definitive", however, since the seller had a whole stack of original installments and it's entirely possible that they may have misplaced that amongst the other auctions.

What does the monster sheet look like?

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:39 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
mbassoc2003 wrote:We see the same happening with CSIO as it is released to subscribers, so it would not be unreasonable to for Modron to have ship without the monster sheet to JGJ subscribers, and later have it added when it goes on general release.

I'm missing the Monster Sheet in my subscriber copy of "M", fwiw.
Just two maps tucked inside the (unused) blue booklet.

Please don't take this as "definitive", however, since the seller had a whole stack of original installments and it's entirely possible that they may have misplaced that amongst the other auctions.

What does the monster sheet look like?


well me being me, i have three :) and none of mine have one.

i have to agree with ian's argument. seems more sensible to me to whack out the instalment to the subscribers, ie book and maps. then when it goes to general release, add things to it to make it more saleable? makes sense to me.

imo tegel went first without the cover sheet, then had one added, then had one with a treasure vault (which i will scan shortly)

i think modron was the same. i have three, ian has one and david has one, all with the same contents....

Al



  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:45 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
Plaag wrote:Modron..(to throw out some possibilities) is there two versions of Booklet M perhaps much like Booklet L?
....but if we can't discover anything supporting the Booklet M's without the sheet then I'm going to leave the 1st printing of Installment M as is.


could be that there are two variations shane. ian's modron came from burnie bros...so i highly doubt an item of theirs in that condition would be missing something.....

so yes i think a similar thing to the tegel is going on. i will look at the booklets to see if there are any differences too....

(aside: Was not the Burnie Bros. Tegel an orange cover, IIRC? Or was that actually the point?)

=
Back on "M", one of the reasons I purchased that map set from Terry was to obtain a "remaindered" "M" to compare with one I knew was originally issued with the installment.

I haven't re-checked every word, but there don't appear to be any major textual differences. Nothing like the extra word at the "Ende" of "L", anyhow :(

Indeed, the only apparent difference (and it could easily be a "fix" within a single print run) was that the cover of the blue booklet known to have come with the installment has a vertical text weakness most noticeable at the "I" in "In open water" through the "8" in "10-80 damage" to the "1" in "4-18 MPH".
*
The "n" in "current" near the top of this weakness is nearly invistible in the "installment" copy.
The copy from Terry does not have this weakness at all, but the "n" in "current" is broken at the right hand side.
*
Given that the quality of printing (and proof-reading) on these installments is far superior to the likes of Graphic Printing (early OD&D), this is worth a mention, but I wouldn't say it was indicative of any print-run-worthiness in it's own right, even if it's a consistent flaw! ;)

fwiw, anyhow :)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:50 pm 
 

so do you think there was more than one printing of the modron booklet, or do you think it was just a beginning process...noticing an error, fixing it, and continuing with the print run. they didnt destroy the books cos they couldnt afford to and so they all just went out as a printing, despite some having the abnomilies that david just mentioned.



  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:50 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
harami2000 wrote:I'm missing the Monster Sheet in my subscriber copy of "M", fwiw.
Just two maps tucked inside the (unused) blue booklet.
...
What does the monster sheet look like?

well me being me, i have three :) and none of mine have one.

Heya, Al.
Were any of your copies actually known to have been sent as installments to subscribers, or were those all Terry's overstock?
I can barely recall as many as three known-to-be-sold-as-installment "M"s on eBay since I started looking.


=
(What's this about a marathon, btw? Or is that just a few circuits around your JG stockpile? ;))

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:54 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:
harami2000 wrote:I'm missing the Monster Sheet in my subscriber copy of "M", fwiw.
Just two maps tucked inside the (unused) blue booklet.
...
What does the monster sheet look like?

well me being me, i have three :) and none of mine have one.

Heya, Al.
Were any of your copies actually known to have been sent as installments to subscribers, or were those all Terry's overstock?
I can barely recall as many as three known-to-be-sold-as-installment "M"s on eBay since I started looking.


=
(What's this about a marathon, btw? Or is that just a few circuits around your JG stockpile? ;))


i only got 2nd print+ modrons off terry. my others i got elsewhere from diff ppl. am going to look at them shortly to see what they look like.

marathon...i mentioned it a fair while back. i am running in the 2006 Marathon Des Sables :) www.saharamarathon.co.uk

am up to about 60-65 miles per week atm.

anyway back onto topic.

tegel first.... scan to follow

Al



  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:01 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:so do you think there was more than one printing of the modron booklet, or do you think it was just a beginning process...noticing an error, fixing it, and continuing with the print run. they didnt destroy the books cos they couldnt afford to and so they all just went out as a printing, despite some having the abnomilies that david just mentioned.

Looks like they spotted the unreadable text, gave the plate a good thump to flatten it out, and broke that "n" in the process.
Of course, I don't know if the "n" is broken or unbroken in the copy where it's almost invisible, so it's possible that the plate was just generally playing up!
(Does anyone have a copy with an unbroken "n", out of interest...?)

Yes, although I haven't seen that much evidence I could believe there was just one printing of the blue booklets.
By then, JG was starting to ramp up operations a bit, so they might've over-run the printing a bit more and not needed to reprint it.
That might also explain why the booklet "M" is possibly rarer than "L"; since it wasn't as popular and thus they didn't need to reprint it.
(Indeed, Terry's cache of "remainder" copies has increased the number "known to the board" considerably!).

02c, only.... ;)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:18 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:The "n" in "current" near the top of this weakness is nearly invistible in the "installment" copy.
The copy from Terry does not have this weakness at all, but the "n" in "current" is broken at the right hand side.


right i have just look at my blue modron's and they all have the same line down the right hand side in the same way yours does david.

another thought on the "print runs" between modron and tegel:

i have read both booklets a number of times and as much as i like them both, tegel is by far the better book. i think it sold a LOT better and so they would have had to print more books, which would lead to different colours/format changes etc. but with modron, i really dont think it was all that popular really in the general scheme of things, so they prb only had two print runs at the max. the first one prb being what we have, then the 2nd being the one that terry has (print problem fixed)...

just some food for thought

Al



  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:21 pm 
 

Hi All.

My copy of Modron was the one sold along with JGJ as a subscriber copy, and it's come from Burntwire back just after X-mas.

It occurs to me that subscribers do not need the freebie sheets because being subscribers they already have the ready ref. sheets (Tegels freebie comes from the 1st edition ready ref. sheets) and they already have the Judges Shield (Modron's freebie is a reprint of the monster table in the judges shield. Its just been redrawn to make it portrait rather than landscape.)

So if you're gonna release a product to non-subscribers you need to make sure they have the sheets they need and you can't be sure they have them if they are buying from you blind. So you bung a character checklist in with Tegel 'cos its character (NPC) heavy, and you bung the monster stats in with Modron ('cos its needed).

Seems pretty logical to me.


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:26 pm 
 

that sounds about spot on to me.

shane/david...what do you think ?



  
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