JG88 Dark Tower - Print Sequence
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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:06 am 
 

I seem to have two different printings of JG88 Dark Tower.

The outer covers appear identical, as do the booty lists at the back. What I did notice was that in one printing there is a grey quadrille grid (with the Judges Guild details in the lower left corner) printed beneath the picture and text on Page 18 and beneath the map on Page 22 in one copy, and not in the other.

So, is there any way of knowing which came first? Or is the copy without the quadrille grid a miss-print? It looks to me as if the quadrille grid may have been omitted in later printings as a cost saving, and this may be bourne out by the darker (more solid) printing of my copy without the quadrille grid.

With Grid (1st print), without grid (2nd print)? I'd be interested to see what other people have in their copies of Dark Tower (and of course the thinkings of our two resident JG gurus).


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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:23 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I seem to have two different printings of JG88 Dark Tower.

The outer covers appear identical, as do the booty lists at the back. What I did notice was that in one printing there is a grey quadrille grid (with the Judges Guild details in the lower left corner) printed beneath the picture and text on Page 18 and beneath the map on Page 22 in one copy, and not in the other.

So, is there any way of knowing which came first? Or is the copy without the quadrille grid a miss-print? It looks to me as if the quadrille grid may have been omitted in later printings as a cost saving, and this may be bourne out by the darker (more solid) printing of my copy without the quadrille grid.

With Grid (1st print), without grid (2nd print)? I'd be interested to see what other people have in their copies of Dark Tower (and of course the thoughts of the two resident JG gurus).


i'll see if i can find mine later.....tho i have got stuff all over the place atm :)

i think there was a discussion in relation to DT not so long back ian...go have a look.

Al



  

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:17 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I seem to have two different printings of JG88 Dark Tower.

The outer covers appear identical, as do the booty lists at the back. What I did notice was that in one printing there is a grey quadrille grid (with the Judges Guild details in the lower left corner) printed beneath the picture and text on Page 18 and beneath the map on Page 22 in one copy, and not in the other.

So, is there any way of knowing which came first? Or is the copy without the quadrille grid a miss-print? It looks to me as if the quadrille grid may have been omitted in later printings as a cost saving, and this may be bourne out by the darker (more solid) printing of my copy without the quadrille grid.

With Grid (1st print), without grid (2nd print)? I'd be interested to see what other people have in their copies of Dark Tower (and of course the thinkings of our two resident JG gurus).


3rd print (has Treasure Vault upto 710) I have a grey grid for the map on pg 22, but nothing like that on pg 18. (the other maps have black grinds save for pg 6 which also has the grey grid).

Pics would be good to have..(will comment more when I find and read the DT thread)

Edit: Well nothing in the threads though El Diablo Robotico has a 1st print (Booty List upto 93) so if he'd chime in as well then we can have more to go by. You also might want to check and see if Zocchi is not printed anywhere on the introduction page.
So shall wait and see what others find out about their copies.

ShaneG.

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:26 pm 
 

I have no grey grid on page 6. Booty list goes up to 93 Under a Storm Giants Castle.


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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:30 pm 
 

What is the highest # found in the Booty List for your copies?

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:43 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:What I did notice was that in one printing there is a grey quadrille grid (with the Judges Guild details in the lower left corner) printed beneath the picture and text on Page 18 and beneath the map on Page 22 in one copy, and not in the other.


I have one of my copies in front of me and on page 18 I have the grid but on page 22 I have no grid.

The booty list on the back goes up to item # 93 Under the Storm Giants Castle.

I know I have at least 2 more copies just not sure what comic box to dig out but if you don't get enough info from posts I will dig.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:50 pm 
 

So we have these differences:

Grey Grid on Page 18 and 22 (print?)
Grey Grid on Page 18 only (1st print) Confirmed
Grey Grid on Page 22 only (3rd print) Confirmed
Grey Grid absent (print?)

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 4:47 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:So we have these differences:

Grey Grid on Page 18 and 22 (print?)
Grey Grid on Page 18 only (1st print) Confirmed
Grey Grid on Page 22 only (3rd print) Confirmed
Grey Grid absent (print?)

ShaneG.


I have Grid on Pages 18 and 22 but not on Page 6.
I also have a copy with no grids, which also has Booty List to 93.

Which copy do you have with a grid on page 6? How have you confirmed the print sequence?


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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:04 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:
Plaag wrote:So we have these differences:

Grey Grid on Page 18 and 22 (print?)
Grey Grid on Page 18 only (1st print) Confirmed
Grey Grid on Page 22 only (3rd print) Confirmed
Grey Grid absent (print?)

ShaneG.


I have Grid on Pages 18 and 22 but not on Page 6.
I also have a copy with no grids, which also has Booty List to 93.

Which copy do you have with a grid on page 6? How have you confirmed the print sequence?


Grey Grid beneath picture/text on Pg 18, beneath map on Pg 22, absent on map on Pg 6 (1st print 'A')
Grey Grid absent on Pg 18, absent on map on Pg 22, absent on map on Pg 6 (1st print 'B')
Grey Grid beneath picture/text on Pg 18, absent on map on Pg 22, (beneath/absent?) on map on Pg 6 (1st print 'C')
Grey Grid absent on picture/text on Pg 18, beneath map on Pg 22, beneath map on Pg 6 (3rd print 'A')

No sequence placed other then what I've now done breaking down what was first only known as a 1st/2nd/or 3rd print..when we get more to confirm there copies and these 3 pages..things maybe clearer. (Letter code does not represent order either, jutst to aide in uncovering this unique trait of DT)

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:24 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Grey Grid beneath picture/text on Pg 18, absent on map on Pg 22, (beneath/absent?) on map on Pg 6 (1st print 'C')

So there could in fact be 4 versions of DT with a Booty List ending in #93.

Plaag wrote:(Letter code does not represent order either, jutst to aide in uncovering this unique trait of DT)

I agree. Good luck at trying to establish a print sequence. There seems to be no difference between the text, and with four possible 1st DTs, the ink saving theory doesn't seem to hold up. :D


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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:35 pm 
 

*sighs*. long, frustrating day... :(

mbassoc2003 wrote:there is a grey quadrille grid (with the Judges Guild details in the lower left corner) printed beneath the picture and text on Page 18
...
I have no grey grid on page 6. Booty list goes up to 93 Under a Storm Giants Castle.
...
With Grid (1st print), without grid (2nd print)?

Probably just a printing error.

Interestingly, the most obvious solution (printing in 32s) would mean that this was printed on full size(?) newspaper sheets.
I'd somehow thought those had been cut down to size before printing (printed in 8s or 16s).

*sketches*
Image

The grey grid underprint would've been done first.
If those printed sheets were then put in the press the wrong way up, the grid would be transposed 12 pages. (n.b. The above is not definitive of page orientation, of course).

Given the cover is newsprint, too (total 72 pages), this would pose another few interesting questions.

I'd kinda presumed printing in 8s or 16s.
16s would require 4*16 + 8 which is easy; just print the text twice, reversing the sheet.
32s sounds a bit more fun 2*32 + 8; would require three reprints of that final block of 8 (how many times can newsprint go through a press?).
Given where the (presumed) error occurs and this setup, the "8" would have to be the outermost pages of the book.
This, however, would allow them to print the remainder in 4s or 8s; especially 4s if a slightly higher quality of paper was desired for the two color cover. Or just that they could be more careful whilst running those off. Dunno.... otherwise that last "8" would require eight runs through the press if printed on a "blank" 32. *thinks*

  

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:36 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:
Plaag wrote:Grey Grid beneath picture/text on Pg 18, absent on map on Pg 22, (beneath/absent?) on map on Pg 6 (1st print 'C')

So there could in fact be 4 versions of DT with a Booty List ending in #93.

Plaag wrote:(Letter code does not represent order either, jutst to aide in uncovering this unique trait of DT)

I agree. Good luck at trying to establish a print sequence. There seems to be no difference between the text, and with four possible 1st DTs, the ink saving theory doesn't seem to hold up. :D


It may never be known but heres something:
K.K. Stevens Publishing Co. (published products for JG) on its history and methods used back in the late 70's early 80's.
(snipet)
3. All material was supplied to us "Camera-Ready", meaning that all copy would be in place and ready to be reproduced on our graphic arts camera. Color was especially difficult then as opposed to now. What is now done using Adobe Photoshop was then either done manually or with a computer system costing several hundred thousand dollars.
Could there be black grids on any of these? (yeah what a mess this would make regardless of the variant 1sts already)
Or could these pages already be made...as in the grey grid pages and blank pages run through the machine in the wrong order or in the wrong amounts (giving grey grids on pages not intended, forgotten in other copies) makes you wonder if this is more an error then another 'printing'.

ShaneG.

(or what he said above :) )

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:40 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:3. All material was supplied to us "Camera-Ready", meaning that all copy would be in place and ready to be reproduced on our graphic arts camera.

Hmm... *tries to work out whether that would have any implications for the size of the actual printed page (8s/16s/32s)*

  

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:51 pm 
 

404 (Page Not Found) Error - Ever feel like you're in the wrong place?

From there site.

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:51 pm 
 

That's truely inspired and unusual thinking, David. That is why I am a humble collector, and you are a Professor of Dungeons & Dragons.


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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:56 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:That's truely inspired and unusual thinking, David. That is why I am a humble collector, and you are a Professor of Dungeons & Dragons.

Failed origamist, more like. :P



(...had to be careful typing that :oops:)

  

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:59 pm 
 

all the pages are double sheets, then folded..so wouldn't the pages be printed 1/2, 71/72 ..5/6, 67/68...17/18, 55/56...21/22, 51/52 (leaving the grey grid on the same side for all the pages upon which it was printed/misprinted.

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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:01 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:Failed origamist, more like. :D

I know. I could never get the hang of the pedals.


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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:07 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:all the pages are double sheets, then folded..so wouldn't the pages be printed 1/2, 71/72 ..5/6, 67/68...17/18, 55/56...21/22, 51/52 (leaving the grey grid on the same side for all the pages upon which it was printed/misprinted.

ShaneG.

Well, in 16s they'd have to load up the wrong sheets the wrong way around, etc.
*skips 8s*

Going back to printing in 4s (i.e. using sheets pre-cut to the final size, or just larger, prior to final trimming), they'd just have to load up the wrong ones with the pre-printed grid. But the error would then be extremely obvious, I would have thought?
Is still a possibility, but given the 12 page displacement and presence of the grid on one page and it's absence on the other, the printing in 32s option (as above) fits the observed "final product" more easily.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:10 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:
harami2000 wrote:Failed origamist, more like. :D

I know. I could never get the hang of the pedals.

:lol:

  
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