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Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:39 am 
 

I've never had the pleasure of playing -- or even reading -- CSIO, but I love city campaigns and I'd really like to own a copy.  Judges Guild material was hard to come by in Alabama in the late 70s.



So, I have several questions:



When looking for an original CSIO set, what all should be included?

It contains several maps in addition to a booklet or booklets, right?

Were there numerous editions, as was the case with TSR products?



In the meantime, while I wait to find an original, is it worth it to purchase the new d20 CSIO?

Does it contain the same material?



Thanks much,

Keith


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:00 am 
 

Keith wrote:I've never had the pleasure of playing -- or even reading -- CSIO, but I love city campaigns and I'd really like to own a copy. Judges Guild material was hard to come by in Alabama in the late 70s.



So, I have several questions:



When looking for an original CSIO set, what all should be included?

It contains several maps in addition to a booklet or booklets, right?

Were there numerous editions, as was the case with TSR products?



In the meantime, while I wait to find an original, is it worth it to purchase the new d20 CSIO?

Does it contain the same material?



Thanks much,

Keith




Item Code: 12

Title: City State of the Invincible Overlord Playing Aid

Type: Campaign Setting

System: Dungeons & Dragons

Author(s): Bob Bledsaw, Bill Owen

Date Published: 1976

Format: 56-page booklet, 16-page booklet, 12-page booklet, 34"x44" map (4 sections), 17"x22" map, 11"x17" map, ten 8 1/2"x11" maps, cover sheet

Original Price: $9.00



This campaign setting includes the Guide to the City State, yellow Booklet I, Booklet J, huge City State Map, City State Player Map, Thunderhold/Sunstone Cavern Map, Dungeon Level Maps I: Levels 1-5, Dungeon Level Maps J: Levels 1-4, and a cover sheet.



Item Code: 62

Title: Revised City State of the Invincible Overlord Playing Aid

Type: Campaign Setting

System: Dungeons & Dragons

Author(s): Bob Bledsaw, Bill Owen

Date Published: 1978

Format: 80-page book, 2 22 1/2"x28 1/2" maps (Judge, Player), 11"x17" map, 8 1/2"x11" map

Original Price: $8.00



 1st Printing: (1978) Cover has brown/grayish background with red lettering that comes with a JG item list that lists no releases after Village Book I.  â€˜Created and Approved for use with Dungeons & Dragons' and ‘Official Judges Guild Fantasy Game Aid' on the cover along with a large ‘$8.00' centered at the bottom of the cover.



2nd Printing: (1979) Cover has a glossy gray background with red lettering. ‘Created and Approved for use with Dungeons & Dragons' and ‘Official Judges Guild Fantasy Game Aid' on the cover along with a large ‘$8.00' centered at the bottom of the cover.



3rd Printing: (1980) Cover has gray background with red lettering. ‘Official Playing Aid Approved for Dungeons & Dragons' on the cover. Item number and price in small box at bottom left corner.



Item Code: 62

Title: Revised City State of the Invincible Overlord Playing Aid

Type: Campaign Setting

System: Dungeons & Dragons

Author(s): Bob Bledsaw, Bill Owen

Date Published: 1981

Format: 96-page book, 2 22 1/2"x28 1/2" maps (Judge, Player)

Original Price: $8.00



4th Printing: (1981) Cover has red background with white lettering. ‘Official Playing Aid Approved for Dungeons & Dragons' on the cover. 96 pages with small item number and price at bottom left corner. 6th edition is stated on the first page.



Item Code: 1999-62

Title: Revised City State of the Invincible Overlord Playing Aid

Type: Campaign Setting

System: Universal

Author(s): Bob Bledsaw, Bill Owen

Date Published: 1999

Format: 88-page book, 2 35"x49" maps (Judge, Player), 6 17"x22" maps (3 Judge, 3 Player)

Original Price: $10.00



5th Printing: (1999) This is a reprint of the 4th printing  with a blue background and angled scroll on cover. Note: This is not City State - Collector's Edition UFS as that was never released.



The d20 CSIO contains all the original maps, plus a much expanded and updated softcover book detailing the denizens of the City State, its locations, adventure ideas and NPCs. The set also incorporates material from the classic Judges Guild product Wraith Overlord, which details the sewers and dungeons beneath the famed City State, as well as material from Pegasus Magazines.



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Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:19 am 
 

I really appreciate the comprehensive answer.  



Given the early publication date of Item Code 12, it seems like Item Code 62 would've been the one used by most D&Ders back in the early days of 1E.



Subjective question here: Were later printings (say the 4th, for instance) substantially improved over earlier ones?



Thanks for your help.

Keith

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:38 am 
 

Keith wrote:I really appreciate the comprehensive answer.



Given the early publication date of Item Code 12, it seems like Item Code 62 would've been the one used by most D&Ders back in the early days of 1E.



Subjective question here: Were later printings (say the 4th, for instance) substantially improved over earlier ones?



Thanks for your help.

Keith




hey keith



well i have three or four diff ones and tbh the material is pretty much exactly the same, bar for diff covers or the text has been moved around slightly or booklet different of course.



material itself stays the same.



Al



ps. i would have tought you would be sat in an underground bunker now with that hurricane heading towards you :D



  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 11:55 am 
 

No worries "up" here.  I'm in the extreme north part of Alabama (in the Cumberland Mtn foothills), roughly 350 miles from the coast.



Even Ivan, which hammered the Alabama coast last September, didn't do much here ... it was "only" a tropical storm this far inland.



This month's National Geographic has an excellent graphic depicting the mind-boggling increase in Atlantic hurricanes in the last decade due to a change in the ocean's surface temperature.  It's rather sobering, and I hate to be sober  :D

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:06 pm 
 

I have to wonder how many of the 5th printing were made as I have yet to see another on Ebay (it was actually the first one I bought from the old JG site when it was selling products). Course all the other Revised crop up every once and a while.



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Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:11 pm 
 

I put this up for sale today:--



http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... %3AIT&rd=1



If you want scans, you've got 10 days before it's off to some lucky new owner

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:19 pm 
 

richardmaloney wrote:I put this up for sale today:--



http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... %3AIT&rd=1



If you want scans, you've got 10 days before it's off to some lucky new owner




No need..I got all of them for #62 now.

Oh and welcome Richard!..I've been the one emailing you about finding out dates on some items :D



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Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:38 pm 
 

richardmaloney wrote:I put this up for sale today:--



http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... %3AIT&rd=1



If you want scans, you've got 10 days before it's off to some lucky new owner




   Hi Richard:



   I emailed you today as well!  Welcome.   :)


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:30 am 
 

Thank you both. This is as good a place as any to ask.



1) What were the maps that came with Wraith Overlord ? I'm still trying to pair things up before I auction them.



2) Is there a booklet with campaign maps 7 to 18 - can't seem to find it.



3) Is there more to a judges shield than 3 separate pieces of card ?



If there are any scans anyone wants email me at [email protected]

  

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:54 am 
 

richardmaloney wrote:Thank you both. This is as good a place as any to ask.



1) What were the maps that came with Wraith Overlord ? I'm still trying to pair things up before I auction them.



2) Is there a booklet with campaign maps 7 to 18 - can't seem to find it.



3) Is there more to a judges shield than 3 separate pieces of card ?



If there are any scans anyone wants email me at [email protected]


The judges shield was just 3 pieces of card IIRC.

Wraith overlord comes with 1 large white map 22"x34" with all the tombs and sewers on it, and 1 17"x22" pebble grain sandy coloured map of the city (city state of the invincible overlord main map).


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:00 am 
 

Richard:



   There are two maps that should be included with Wraith Overlord.



1)  A 17" x 22" map of the City State of the Invincible Overlord.



    This map shows the city with its shops identified and nearby points of interest detailed.  Mine is printed on brown, parchment-style paper.



2)  A huge, white map (34" x 44") that is labeled "Wraith Overlord City-State Sewer Map."



    This map is two-sided.  One side has a map of the sewers along with some other sites such as a watch tower, tome and "Despot Ruins."



    The reverse side has a number of smaller site maps that are duplicated in the booklet.



    Hope this helps.    8)


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:51 am 
 

MShipley88 wrote:Richard:



 There are two maps that should be included with Wraith Overlord.



1) A 17" x 22" map of the City State of the Invincible Overlord.



  This map shows the city with its shops identified and nearby points of interest detailed. Mine is printed on brown, parchment-style paper.



2) A huge, white map (34" x 44") that is labeled "Wraith Overlord City-State Sewer Map."



  This map is two-sided. One side has a map of the sewers along with some other sites such as a watch tower, tome and "Despot Ruins."



  The reverse side has a number of smaller site maps that are duplicated in the booklet.



  Hope this helps.  8)




well my 4 copies are all shrinked so i cant tell but hey :)



ian's the main man - if he says thats whats in it, then thats it.



now get on with these auctions already will you richard :)



Al



  

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:09 pm 
 

richardmaloney wrote:2) Is there a booklet with campaign maps 7 to 18 - can't seem to find it.





If you mean  Campaign Map #17-Silver Skein Isles/ Campaign Map #18-Ghinor Highlands that goes with Wilderlands of the Fantastic Reaches (but maps have been sold on there own)

If you meant is there a booklet of the Campaign Maps, then nope.



Your other questions were answered already.



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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:41 pm 
 

Here are the Wilderlands Publications and the maps from the City State of the Invincible Overlord Campaign that go with them:



WILDERLANDS OF HIGH FANTASY:  Maps 1, 2, 3, 4, 5



FANTASTIC WILDERLANDS BEYONDE:  Maps 7, 8, 9, 10



WILDERLANDS OF THE MAGIC REALM:  Maps 11, 12, 13, 14



WILDERLANDS OF THE FANTASTIC REACHES:  Maps 15, 16, 17, 18



CITY STATE OF THE WORLD EMPEROR:  Map 6



TARANTIS:  Map with no number...depicting the entire campaign world.



  The grid of map numbers looks like this:



9     5     3

6     1     4

7     2     13

10   12    15

8     11    17

14   18    16





 The names and numbers match as follows:



1    - City State of the Invincible Overlord

2    - Barbarian Altanis

3    - Valley of the Ancients

4    - Tarantis

5    - Valon

6    - City State of the World Emperor

7    - Desert Lands

8    - Sea of Five Winds

9    - Elphand Lands

10  - Lenap

11  - Ghinor

12  - Ebony Coast

13  - Isles of the Blest

14  - Ament Tundra

15  - Isles of the Dawn

16  - Southern Reaches

17  - Silver Skein Isles

18  - Ghinor Highlands



Three Notes:



A)  There is a map for the First Fantasy Campaign publication that looks just like these maps...but it does not fit on this world map.



B)  Some of these maps are printed back to back (apparently with no thought to how much that would make them hard to use and hard to display on a wall).



C)  There are duplicate DM and Players' maps with most of the details missing from the players' version.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:57 pm 
 

Further Wilderlands Notes:



D)  There are five adventures included under the "Wilderness" series title.  These fit into the City State campaign, but should not be mistaken for the larger-in-scope "Wilderlands" publications.  These include:



MINES OF CUSTALCON

PIRATES OF HAGROST

SHIELD MAIDENS OF SEA RUNE

SPIES OF LIGHTELF

WITCHES COURT MARSHES





E)  The actually city map of the CITY STATE OF THE INVINCIBLE OVERLORD comes in several versions.  There is a collection of four 17x22 maps.  There is a large map that comes with the revised City State publication (which includes a partially blank player's map).  There is a smaller version of the city map included in the publication, WRAITH OVERLORD.



F)  The publication known as CITY STATE OF THE WORLD EMPEROR includes map 6 (and possibly a player's map as well).  It also has DM and players' maps of the city and (apparently, because I have not seen it) a color map of the city.



G)  The city of MODRON, located downriver from the CITY STATE OF THE WORLD EMPEROR, has city maps for both players and the DM.  Some versions of this module come with the maps stapled into the center of the book (with a players' map on the back of the book).  Some versions also apparently come with detached maps.  (For some reason, MODRON is described as a backwater even though it is located at the mouth of the Roglaroon Estuary, perfectly situated between the City State and the open sea.  Go figure.)



H)  There are smaller maps included in the CITY STATE OF THE INVINCIBLE OVERLORD that depict a dungeon and a dwarven mine.  Some versions come with these maps stapled inside.  Others have them pre-separated or even missing.



I)  THUNDERHOLD is a dwarven settlement included in the CITY STATE OF THE INVINCIBLE OVERLORD.  In some versions, the map of this site is smaller, and comes stapled inside the book.  Other versions come with larger, brown maps and (apparently) have both DM and player versions of the stronghold.



J)  WRAITH OVERLORD is set in the CITY STATE OF THE INVINCIBLE OVERLORD.  It comes with a smaller map of the city (very useful) and a double-sided map depicting the city sewers on one side and various site maps from the module on the other.  These site maps are duplicates of maps already printed inside the book.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:59 pm 
 

Anyone else want to contribute additions or corrections?


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:19 pm 
 

Oh...and a couple of late items:



   MODRON is associated with the CITY STATE OF THE INVINCIBLE OVERLORD, not the WORLD EMPEROR.



    TARANTIS includes an excellent city map (one of the most useful) which has a copy of Map 4 (Tarantis) on it.  Published as a late fling before Judges Guild went under, Tarantis is one of the best and most useful fantasy cities.



    MAYFAIR GAMES published a version of the CITY STATE OF THE INVINCIBLE OVERLORD.  It is not a bad publication, but the city depicted by Mayfair is almost unrecognizeable and ought to be considered an entirely different storyline.



    NECROMANCER GAMES has published their own CITY STATE OF THE INVINCIBLE OVERLORD, in partnership with what is left of Judges Guild.  I am currently waiting for this prize to hit my mailbox.   8)


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:45 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:A) There is a map for the First Fantasy Campaign publication that looks just like these maps...but it does not fit on this world map.




Actually that map connects to the NE of Campaign Map 3 'Valley of Ancients'



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Post Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:09 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:
MShipley88 wrote:A) There is a map for the First Fantasy Campaign publication that looks just like these maps...but it does not fit on this world map.




Actually that map connects to the NE of Campaign Map 3 'Valley of Ancients'



ShaneG.




   Shane:



   How sure are you of that?  I have read that the two are unconnected, but I have not actually matched up the maps.  Is there some official connection listed somewhere?   :?


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