Silliest auction price - Judges Guild!
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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 4:20 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:I didn't even realize that the key item was the white booklet until you just pointed it out

(oh, I forgot to add; the original maps might be interesting, too. Depends on how much that auction lot was pieced together...).

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:32 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
faro wrote:White "I" booklet. I presume Shane deliberately pointed out the auction early in the hope no-one would notice.

That was clearly a case of "I know you're going to buy at any price; OK, feel free...".


Hmm, interesting to say the least. :?  I wonder who "Richard" is, the one who asked about the BIN?


   Could be Richard Maloney, Acaeum member from Australia.


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:59 pm 
 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 8750407226

$510???  8O  8O  8O


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:04 pm 
 

This is not silly :wink:
As I don't intend to keep doubles, is anyone interested in anything from that lot that has 2 or more copies?

oh and now I'm done, have to let the ol heart settle....

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:08 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:This is not silly :wink:
As I don't intend to keep doubles, is anyone interested in anything from that lot that has 2 or more copies?

oh and now I'm done, have to let the ol heart settle....

ShaneG.


Well, I would be interested in the Dungeoneers. :) A couple of things scare me about that auction though. 1) Did you see how signifigant the staple rust was on some of those zines? Isn't it a strong possiblity that the rust is just as signifigant if not worse in the Dungeoneers? Secondly, what's is the deal with the "reprint" on the Dungeoneers #1 & #2. I am assuming that means it was a second print right?


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:12 pm 
 

Oh and one other thing.  If you dont want that Book of Sorcery I would be interested in that too. :wink:


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:14 pm 
 

Dungeoneers 1 thru 6

Adrian Newman thought all of the Dungeoneers were the same, but from the auction you can clearly see #1 is not like on the site. (I shall have to dig out his emails to me and correct the page as to what printings he had.)

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:16 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:Oh and one other thing. If you dont want that Book of Sorcery I would be interested in that too. :wink:


Don't have one, so shall keep it.

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:18 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Dungeoneers 1 thru 6

Adrian Newman thought all of the Dungeoneers were the same, but from the auction you can clearly see #1 is not like on the site. (I shall have to dig out his emails to me and correct the page as to what printings he had.)

ShaneG.


I actually took a hard look at that before I placed my bid. That Dungeoneer #1 is definitely different which is one of the things that caused some concern from me. I am by no means anywhere close to being an expert on JG stuff, but it is something that definitely stuck out to me. I have seen a few pictures of #1's before and they are all brownish like the one you have listed on the site, whereas that one in the auction is clearly yellow. :?


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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:21 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:
Plaag wrote:Dungeoneers 1 thru 6

Adrian Newman thought all of the Dungeoneers were the same, but from the auction you can clearly see #1 is not like on the site. (I shall have to dig out his emails to me and correct the page as to what printings he had.)

ShaneG.


I actually took a hard look at that before I placed my bid. That Dungeoneer #1 is definitely different which is one of the things that caused some concern from me. I am by no means an expert on JG stuff, but it is something that definitely stuckj out to me. I have seen a few pictures of the #1 and they are all brownish like the one you have on the site whereas that one in the auction is clearly yellow. :?


But check out #2..also yellow, only 1 printing, from September 1976. I think the auction's #1 is a 1st print from June 1976. Only assuming of course at this point that Paul used the same card stock in the begining for the covers.

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Post Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:26 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:
bclarkie wrote:
I actually took a hard look at that before I placed my bid. That Dungeoneer #1 is definitely different which is one of the things that caused some concern from me. I am by no means an expert on JG stuff, but it is something that definitely stuckj out to me. I have seen a few pictures of the #1 and they are all brownish like the one you have on the site whereas that one in the auction is clearly yellow. :?


But check out #2..also yellow, only 1 printing, from September 1976. I think the auction's #1 is a 1st print from June 1976. Only assuming of course at this point that Paul used the same card stock in the begining for the covers.

ShaneG.


Well, it will be interesting to see how this shakes out. :)  David must have been pretty convinced about it as well as he threw in a pretty heavy duty bid too.


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:42 am 
 

faro wrote:
Plaag wrote:I'm done honest..

Are you sure? *eyes you warily*

Said I didn't believe you, Shane...

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:46 am 
 

Plaag wrote:This is not silly :wink:

Only a bit silly. Max $40 each for the reprints and originals makes $320.
A reseller could probably justify going the extra mile, if they were missing all of those.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:27 pm 
 

faro wrote:If Shane's happy to stick with his timeline ( History of Judges Guild ) which would suggest that white "I"s should be relatively common, that's up to him.
I've pointed out, before (referring back to Mike/IOs postmarked copies) why that doesn't tally, and why the white copies are rarer.


Concerning that white 'I':
"Bob said they sold about 40 to 50 subs at that first Gen Con, and continued to sell subs like gangbusters through mail order thereafter."

"Of course, Bob didn't want to send out the white copies, so he sent it out only to those who had subscribed at GenCon and were thus already waiting on their subscription."

"Bob then destroyed the remainder of the White cover "I"s when the Brown cover "I" was printed."

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:33 pm 
 

Yup, if Bob's recollections are correct, there would be no more than around 50 of the white "I" installments, as he only used those for the subscribers they got at Gen Con 1976. On the other hand, there would originally be at least a thousand brown "I" installments, as by June 1977 alone there were 1,217 guildmembers, each of which would have gotten a copy of "I" (around 50 white, and 1,183 brown) as each membership included the "Initial Package" (including "I") and the next 5 installments... plus, of course, it was also sold separately, so the numbers were surely greater than the number of guildmembers.

Installment "I" was still being sold as of August/September 1977 (JG Journal "N," circulation 1,549, though not all subscribers were necessarily guildmembers). By the next issue (circ. 1,671) "I" had been discontinued as a separately-available item, the material therein being available as part of the City State of the Invincible Overlord Play Aid (#12).

I would believe, therefore, that the number of brown "I" booklets originally printed during that first year was certainly no less than 1,500, possibly as many as 2,000, as you have to include separate sales and sales to retailers in addition to sales to guildmembers. That would mean that for every white "I" there were at least 30 to 40 brown "I" installments initially, and presuming that the ratio obtains even after all these years, we should see one white sold on eBay for every 30 to 40 brown... the white installments being worth up to 30 to 40 times that of the brown based on rarity alone.

Not that I like this overmuch, as this means a True 1st "I" is probably beyond my means right now... my bid on that auction, which held for days up to the very last moment when the snipes came in, didn't even wave as the snipes flew past it... I was watching it as it rolled past, and were I even able to answer those bids, I couldn't have, as I literally sat there with my jaw on the ground at the $$$...


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:15 pm 
 

That was quite a horde!   8O

   No way to play with the big dogs in that game...but interesting to watch.

Mark    :?


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Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:14 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:
faro wrote:If Shane's happy to stick with his timeline ( History of Judges Guild ) which would suggest that white "I"s should be relatively common, that's up to him.
I've pointed out, before (referring back to Mike/IOs postmarked copies) why that doesn't tally, and why the white copies are rarer.

Concerning that white 'I':
"Bob said they sold about 40 to 50 subs at that first Gen Con, and continued to sell subs like gangbusters through mail order thereafter."

"Of course, Bob didn't want to send out the white copies, so he sent it out only to those who had subscribed at GenCon and were thus already waiting on their subscription."

"Bob then destroyed the remainder of the White cover "I"s when the Brown cover "I" was printed."

ShaneG.

I don't know whether History of Judges Guild has been modified since the email I sent you last year, but I'll re-copy that anyhow, if that's OK.
*
As that "history" currently reads, white "I"s are stated to have been sent with the first regular installment whereas we know that orange "I"s were sent with that (full-scale) subscription.
And the only white "I" known in original context (with mailer) did not get sent with journal #0.

me wrote:
Shane wrote:White I info came from the early pages of the JG Question thread and Mike/IO. The brown I's would have started to be sent out when they came back from the printer some time in Oct-Dec of 76. The tac cards were done one month before the I booklet, so reams of them would have been printed off. (and since some uncut sheets were sold at the GenCon auction this year, they may not have cut the cards up until orders/subscriptions were placed.)

Judges Guild Questions
"It's not a Xerox copy, it's definitely printed, and it came in a sealed JG mailer [NON-POSTMARKED; see correction- but also
contained an original GenCon IX = Aug '76].... Because in the envelope there was only the Guideline Booklet I (White), and the
CSotIO maps (the four maps are made with a different heavy-stock paper than the two other sets we have from envelopes P.O. marked
October 76), and the envelope did not contain Journal # I. The two with the October 76 post mark has all three of the items normaly
included in these mailers. The orangey-brown Initial Guideline Booklet I, The Maps, and the Journal # I, that states October 76 on
the cover."

Mike notes those he has which were sent out pmk'd October 76 had a /orange-brown/ "I" booklet.
The white "I" was presumably sent out before that date with those "different heavy-stock paper" CSotIO maps (hand-folded?), but
/without/ Journal "I".
There's nothing in Mike's evidence to say that White "I"s were sent out with the first regular mailing in Oct '76 c/w
History of Judges Guild .

The Tac Cards were done just before the "I" journal (hence the note about last minute cutting). Would be September or into October.
That could still have been after, or at the same time, as the "I" booklet; no need for the sequence numbers to translate directly
into chronological order.

What d'you think?

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 5:22 pm 
 

jamesmishler wrote:Yup, if Bob's recollections are correct, there would be no more than around 50 of the white "I" installments, as he only used those for the subscribers they got at Gen Con 1976. On the other hand, there would originally be at least a thousand brown "I" installments, as by June 1977 alone there were 1,217 guildmembers
...

Thanks. Nice post.

Yeah, pretty much along lines I'd been working on, although I was kinda guessing (*finger in the air*) 100-125 or so - those who'd subscribed at GenCon, plus any others in the interim, prior to the first installment release.
If there were any more, those were presumably destroyed, rather than being sent out in October with Journal #0, etc.

jamesmishler wrote:That would mean that for every white "I" there were at least 30 to 40 brown "I" installments initially, and presuming that the ratio obtains even after all these years, we should see one white sold on eBay for every 30 to 40 brown... the white installments being worth up to 30 to 40 times that of the brown based on rarity alone.

About £30-40, then?
Heh, I was going with a little bit more than that. Plus the possibility of interest in those maps as well as a bonus Guidebook. Then add $100 to allow for you-know-who ;)
(i.e. prefer to win at ~$185, prefer not to lose at less than ~$285).

jamesmishler wrote:Not that I like this overmuch, as this means a True 1st "I" is probably beyond my means right now... my bid on that auction, which held for days up to the very last moment when the snipes came in, didn't even wave as the snipes flew past it... I was watching it as it rolled past, and were I even able to answer those bids, I couldn't have, as I literally sat there with my jaw on the ground at the $$$...

I wouldn't worry about that too much, James.
Shane had to have that copy, when he finally spotted it! :)

  
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