Judges Guild Questions
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 5 of 4012, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 383940
Author


Prolific Collector

Posts: 482
Joined: May 12, 2005
Last Visit: Jul 22, 2021

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:36 am 
 

Installment "Y." Not listed on ANY Booty List that I can find, and I seem to be the only one not sure... :)

Caverns of Thracia (#102) is numbered just before Journal #16 (#103), and the numbers of the installments usually followed the actual Journal number... but Thracia it could well be, too.

I'm guessing Village Book II or Verbosh, though Operation Ogre falls in the right time, and was cheapest of all the options...

Anyone have solid information on this one?

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 482
Joined: May 12, 2005
Last Visit: Jul 22, 2021

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:38 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
jamesmishler wrote:The House of Euklidies was the original working title for Druids of Doom:

JG1130-Druids of Doom By Bill Pixley & Diane Mortimer


D'oh! That's what I get trying to read and type on no sleep... And I ahd just read through that earlier this month! Thanks!

James

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:41 am 
 

hehehe youre as bad as me - lovely day outside and i have JG books scattered all over the floor :D



  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 10:56 am 
 

jamesmishler wrote:Installment "Y." Not listed on ANY Booty List that I can find, and I seem to be the only one not sure... :)

I'm guessing Village Book II or Verbosh, though Operation Ogre falls in the right time, and was cheapest of all the options...

Anyone have solid information on this one?


Right i have just read a little of JG Journal # 16 (Y). On page 1 in the column "Tips from the Tower", it says this:

"Lots of new things have come in and are now available through Judges Guild since the last issue. Lots of new products are being worked on too. Shortly, you will be seeing the first of the Home Town series from Bryan Hinnen. Also, the Village Book II is coming along...... blah blah blah"

So there you go, it isn't Village Book II. It Does'nt actually say in the Journal, what the instalment IS....

Its definately not Operation Ogre or Verbosh as they were both released after Village Book II.

I am still sticking to it being Caverns of Thracia. I just looked for my JG Journal # 17 but can't find it and it might have given us a clue in there....but alas, cant find :D

Al



  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 11:45 am 
 

(02c)
jamesmishler wrote:1st = White Cover (1975), no copyright

1976? :?:

Had it been a proof copy, that was one of the possible "false leads" which I could've taken: if, say, it was uncertain as to whether the release date was going to be 1975 or 1976, therefore "leave blank, for the time being".

However, from Bob's discussion with yourself, it sounds as though the white (release) copy wasn't that long before the orange. And the latter shouldn't(??) have been that long (if at all?) before October, given the other dating evidence and the "official" release of the "installment" pack.
Hence my queries re. that apparent 1975-76 "gap". And I'm still not 100% sure on how to read that.
*
aside: would also have made more sense to have firmed up on having a copyright message (even if it was missed, first time!) after incorporation (~July 76, as stated) although far from a guaranteed "link", that.

Anyhow;
Bob Bledsaw wrote:Bob didn't want to send them out, but he realized that he needed to get that first sub set out, so they were shipped anyway, and they continued to ship the True First White Cover until they got the Brown Cover with copyright notice later in 1976

=
*sits back to watch the busy-ness*

must admit I hadn't particularly noted the I-# page numbers on JG#0 ("I" journal) until that was mentioned...

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 11:50 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
jamesmishler wrote:Installment "Y." Not listed on ANY Booty List that I can find, and I seem to be the only one not sure... :)

Anyone have solid information on this one?

*looks at installment list above & compares with*
Magazine

You've got a point, there.

*considers going to have a delve in the boxes* (even though I haven't had a Bank Holiday today...)

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4508
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Jan 24, 2022
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 2:34 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:hope your making notes about all this Plaag :) i will be testing you on your Judges Guild 101 when all this is over :D
Al


Damn, after a 12 hour work day and little sleep I come on to see all this.  8O What have I started  8)  :lol:
My brain still needs to wake up, and now I got this test to study for.  :o  :wink: or wait..can this be open 'book' since I do have JG 101: Dungeoneer 12  :D

If anyone can write these histories in a format thats somewhat coherent that would be most appreciated.

ShaneG.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 3:18 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:hope your making notes about all this Plaag :) i will be testing you on your Judges Guild 101 when all this is over :D
Al


Damn, after a 12 hour work day and little sleep I come on to see all this. 8O What have I started 8) :lol:
My brain still needs to wake up, and now I got this test to study for. :o :wink: or wait..can this be open 'book' since I do have JG 101: Dungeoneer 12 :D

If anyone can write these histories in a format thats somewhat coherent that would be most appreciated.

ShaneG.


hehehehe well its all listed here in this thread pretty much chummer that it should be easy to collate into something. i am doing listings and sorting JG books atm, so i aint got a chance....gotta build two shelves too...

great to see the guys coming out with some great info the last few days tho, i have to say.

Al



  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 482
Joined: May 12, 2005
Last Visit: Jul 22, 2021

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 6:14 pm 
 

Harami,

Basically, you are saying that you think the 1975 Gen Con date is wrong, and that the City State map premiered at the 1976 Gen Con (Gen Con IX)?

I've been wondering that myself.

Bob might have gotten that 1975 date mixed up with 1976, and the same with the incorporation date. It does seem an awful long time to go without product released on a regular basis.

Plus, looking over my large original maps, they are all copyright 1976...

Maybe it was Gen Con IX that Bob and Bill attended, and that was where they first sold the City State maps (product #1). Then Bob took the subs at the show (40 or 50, as he recalls), went home and immediately started writing up "I". While doing that, he and Bill come up with the Dungeon Tac Cards and publish those first (product #2). "I" (product #3) is printed sometime in October, and sent out as the first Judges Guild Installment, which consisted of:

Five dungeon levels, I-1 to I-5
Three chart sheets, I-6 to I-8
Four unknown items, I-9 to I-12 (I wonder if these were the four folded City State map sheets, though they are not marked as such?)
White "I," I-13 to I-28
Journal issue #0, I-29 and I-30
All in an envelope.

Of course, Bob didn't want to send out the white copies, so he sent it out only to those who had subscribed at Gen Con and were thus already waiting on their sub... then destroyed the remainter of the White cover "I"s when, sometime in late October to December, the Brown cover "I" was printed.

The "I" installment went out in October, and gave rise to the separate RR charts and the dungeon levels (products #5 to #8). At some point Bob also did the 17"x22" Player's Map of the City State (product #4).

Also in October, Bob called the printer to get more copies of the original 4-section map, but the printer screwed up and printed them on 17"x22" paper, giving birth to product #9, releasing in November 1976.

All this while, Bob was working furiously on expanding the City State, and by December 1976 would be ready to release the 40-page (grown to 56-page) Guide to the City State of the Invincible Overlord (product #10).

Along with that, he's developing Thunderhold, and releases that with a series of general guidelines as the 16-page Thunderhold "Installment J," along with 4 dungeon levels, an RR, and the JG Journal "J" (issue #1) in late December/early January (with a 1976 copyright).

And the rest go from there...

Bob mentioned that quickly after starting he was working 60 to 80 hour weeks running his games and writing (it was his full-time business from the get go).

Incorporation in July 1977 makes more sense, as Bill's name was still associated with things regularly until mid-1977...

I'll have to ask Bob about that 1975/76 thing next time we talk...

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 482
Joined: May 12, 2005
Last Visit: Jul 22, 2021

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 6:35 pm 
 

Bingo! Got it!

Judges Guild Journal "N" (#5, marked "#3"). Page 11, Bob writes down the history of Judges Guild!

And there's where the whole 75/76 thing may have come into being...

Bob got laid off when General Electric closed its factory in Decatur, Ill. in December 1975... but... "Prior to the closing, I had a long discussion with Bill Owen and Marc Summerlot in which I proposed... a venture in the War Gaming field." That went nowhere, though, for the time being...

Then in April 1976 Bob decided to try again on a "less ambitious scale" (with what Judges Guild became, one must wonder what the "ambitious scale" was!)

One of the many campaigns Bob was running included the huge City State (note that, at the time, Bob ran his D&D games in Middle Earth, and the City state was in a land "through a gate found in the Misty Mountains"). Marc didn't want in at the time (though he joined in later, obviously), but Bill decided to jump in on it...

Bob and Bill went to visit TSR in July 1976. They released the fitrst maps at Gen Con 1976. The first employee was Norma Bledsaw (Bob's wife), who "first got paid" in December 1976 (the article says December 1977, but as it is the Aug/Sept 1977 issue, that obviously is wrong... even then Bob had a little trouble with dates, it seems!)

Bob went to full-time with JG in January 1977, his sister Debi part time in April, and Bill full time on March 1977.

Another thing I've noticed is that by "M" at least (Jun/Jul 1977), the Dungeon Tac Cards are included with the "Initial Package" deal, though I do not know whether they were included with the first sub installment sent out in October 1976...

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 6:54 pm 
 

jamesmishler wrote:Bingo! Got it!

Ta da! Well done! :D :D :D

Thought it might be in one of the Journals. Apologies, didn't manage to dig them out at this end. :(

That's the explanation for the apparent "gap": hadn't expected it to have written quite so clearly, though! :)
Was Bob himself confused the matter by explicitly stating 1975 GenCon on that other board, and no-one sanity checking the statement; Judges Guild Questions • Page 3 • Judges Guild •  The Acaeum


If 1975, I could've understood why he might've waited around so long, given the industry "network" was still in its infancy then, but that's still one heck of a "big bang" for 1976.

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 7:07 pm 
 

jamesmishler wrote:Of course, Bob didn't want to send out the white copies, so he sent it out only to those who had subscribed at Gen Con and were thus already waiting on their sub...

Yeah, would've been a long time to wait from the Aug '75 GenCon! ;)

jamesmishler wrote:Four unknown items, I-9 to I-12 (I wonder if these were the four folded City State map sheets, though they are not marked as such?)

Noticed that... They might just have been leaving gaps in the numbering for other "goodies" in the initial installment and run out of time? Or lost count! :oops: *jk*
Would've been more sensible to number the pages of the "I" booklet from I-1, phps?! :P

jamesmishler wrote:Another thing I've noticed is that by "M" at least (Jun/Jul 1977), the Dungeon Tac Cards are included with the "Initial Package" deal, though I do not know whether they were included with the first sub installment sent out in October 1976...

Yes, that's a "presumed" from the text on the front of the first journal; and had noted that tallies with the Guide book booty list re. the initial subscription installment (a month or two "after the fact" but OK in this context, I think);
Judges Guild Questions • Page 2 • Judges Guild •  The Acaeum

jamesmishler wrote:then destroyed the remainter of the White cover "I"s when, sometime in late October to December, the Brown cover "I" was printed.

The "I" installment went out in October, and gave rise to the separate RR charts and the dungeon levels (products #5 to #8 ).

The "I" installment which went out in October did have the Brown Cover "I" included: Mike/<IO> mentioned he had two such postmarked "installment" copies to confirm that dating, IIRC.
- Mike; do you have actual dates in the month for those, please??

(i.e. just 'coz it says Oct. 1976, it ain't always so... but apparently was in this case!)

The Brown cover must've arrived before then which means it was pretty hectic between the end of August and the end of September (hence their comment on the Tac cards, too); and also explains the relative rarity of the white "I"s- having been issued for only a matter of weeks, rather than months.
Certainly I don't recall seeing one up for sale. :?


Another question for Bob would be how many "I" installments went out in that first batch? (... is useful to know in order to try to pin down quite how rapid "take off" actually was, since not all those journals have circulation figures stated).

Thanks, again. :)

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4508
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Jan 24, 2022
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:24 pm 
 

Here's something for those with a complete set. What is the breakdown of the Dungeon Tac Cards? How many of each card?

ShaneG.

 WWW  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 8:34 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Here's something for those with a complete set. What is the breakdown of the Dungeon Tac Cards? How many of each card?

ShaneG.

*shudders at the thought of opening the pack*. Especially after what I said to Ian!

(Regarding a previous comment, I'm sure they weren't overly rare to begin with, but am absolutely certain I know why complete packs are rare, now!).

*looks around for any other volunteers, first*

===

OK; another question on Tac cards...

Don't think anyone had definite dating evidence as to whether the yellow "PO Box" or green "address" set was produced first; regardless of relative rarity?
Mike/<IO> stated the former (any particular reason?), whilst <m03> the latter (and he also had other "first prints"; well, barring the white "I", that is!).
Value of rare Judges Guild items (sealed Tac Cards, etc). • Judges Guild •  The Acaeum

(One more for Bob?).

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 482
Joined: May 12, 2005
Last Visit: Jul 22, 2021

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:19 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:Don't think anyone had definite dating evidence as to whether the yellow "PO Box" or green "address" set was produced first; regardless of relative rarity?
Mike/<IO> stated the former (any particular reason?), whilst <m03> the latter (and he also had other "first prints"; well, barring the white "I", that is!).
Value of rare Judges Guild items (sealed Tac Cards, etc). • Judges Guild •  The Acaeum

(One more for Bob?).


I don't have the dating on those, but the set with the P.O. Box is certain to pre-date that with the street address, as Judges Guild did not move to 1165 N. University Ave. until Feb/Mar 1978 (with a celebration on April 10).

The next move was in April 1980, to the 1221 N. Sunnyside Road address, which you have on the Tac Cards.

That said, there are sure to be several printings of each. Mine, for example, has both a green AND a yellow face card! And it was sealed when I opened it... yes, I hear your gasps of pain even now... :)

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Mon May 30, 2005 9:30 pm 
 

jamesmishler wrote:I don't have the dating on those, but the set with the P.O. Box is certain to pre-date that with the street address, as Judges Guild did not move to 1165 N. University Ave. until Feb/Mar 1978 (with a celebration on April 10).

*lol*. *thinks "cross-check against the books"*
Thank you.

Hey, ho! Brain suffering today... :(
(Wish I'd double-checked before that most recent auction, too).

jamesmishler wrote:That said, there are sure to be several printings of each. Mine, for example, has both a green AND a yellow face card! And it was sealed when I opened it... yes, I hear your gasps of pain even now... :)

Hide the green card somewhere else and pretend you didn't post that comment!

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 2:28 am 
 

hey david, next time some TAC cards come up for auction/sale, gimme a shout. i been after them for aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages but i got outbid quite heavily on Ian's, so need to harden my resolve and go at it better next time.

Al



  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Tue May 31, 2005 3:18 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:hey david, next time some TAC cards come up for auction/sale, gimme a shout. i been after them for aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages but i got outbid quite heavily on Ian's, so need to harden my resolve and go at it better next time.

Al

Heh, heh. Will do, Alan, if I resist the temptation to bid on a sealed or early set.

Re. that latest auction, aside from the price (over-enthusiasm & frustration from previous auctions, etc., which I can live since it was a long-time "want") and printing issues (as above & stupid me for not cross-checking addys), I can't get it back to looking quite the way it did in the pic on Afterglow's site because the poly was ripped open from the "wrong" side. :P

Should've been 15 minutes quicker getting a hold of <m03>, I think! ;)

  
PreviousNext
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 5 of 4012, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 383940