Judges Guild Questions
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 3612, 3 ... 343536
Author

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 11:52 am 
 

i think its certainly going along the right track now. after doing some reading, the 1976 gencon sounds like the more plausable option to me.

maybe after the initial sales at gencon, they then printed and released the guideline I? after all, you prb wouldnt go to the trouble of doing more stuff for a product that you didnt know would take off or anything....

just a thought anyway

Al

ps. david: PM chummer, go check :)



  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 12:29 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:i think its certainly going along the right track now. after doing some reading, the 1976 gencon sounds like the more plausable option to me.

Printer's proof/test copy/publisher's copy are still better "default" explanations in most cases until firm evidence becomes overwhelming.

Could just as easily have rushed the first printing of maps to the '75 GenCon and then have the project sat around until the following year.
(Otherwise, what did they do between July 1975 and late '76?).

Bob Bledsaw (in 2002) wrote:on http://p096.ezboard.com/fnecromancergam ... 21&stop=40 ;
"When Bill Owen and I made our trip to Lake Geneva in 1975, I was laughed at for hazarding an investment in adventures (after all people only bought games not supplements)."

And the convention would be a primary source of income if operating on that (small) scale and the hobby network RP-side was still in an early phase.
(Would also need to check every single related magazine for JG ads from '75 onwards (!) but they might not have been able to contemplate that outlay, initially. Sometimes is easier to ask the people who know, in the hope their memories are still crystal clear, unlike mine!).

killjoy32 wrote:maybe after the initial sales at gencon, they then printed and released the guideline I? after all, you prb wouldnt go to the trouble of doing more stuff for a product that you didnt know would take off or anything....

*nods*. Might be sensible (especially if was a "rush job" at first), and I know I'd still be tempted to buy a nice big detailed map just by itself.

Had also been a bit of a concern that they suddenly found a huge number of subscribers so quickly without any apparent build up... Does seem we're missing something there, on the grapevine out of Lake Geneva and/or Decatur in '75/'76.

killjoy32 wrote:just a thought anyway
Al

ps. david: PM chummer, go check :)

Certainly sensible thoughts!
(PM rec'd: sending /does/ seem a bit dodgy though. Frank might have a point...).

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 2:56 pm 
 

after reading your reply there david, i went onto the JG page and checked out the product list. now being sensible, i am assuming that they were released in that order initially, hence the number sequences then? i have a lot of later print stuff too and when you go through it, the higher the product list number, the later the dates on the issues (from the quick check i made anyway)....

so the initial product 0 was the journal I, which really, would make some sense, as that would be the first thing to offer your subscibers?

before that, invin. said they offered the big maps at gencon. course, as ppl were buying the maps, they could have been asked if they would like to subscribe to Judges Guild Journals, which would be released with instalments with each journal? sounds sensible to me. also giving Bob etc a good idea of scope for their initial products too, numbers to print etc.... ?

product 1 is then the massive 4 piece city state maps, which are absolutely magnificent. a perfect item which you can base your campaigns from.

then was product 2, the TAC cards, creating information for the world...a sorta mix between DM's guide and monster manual? (one thing i have never had so dont know what the contents are actually like).

then came product 3, which was David's scanned book, which i sent him a few weeks back. this gives you detailed encounter tables and beefs out information for the city state itself. quite essential at that time really imo.

then came all the charts, which are pretty damn cool actually if you havent got any.

the actual guide to the city state wasnt until product 10, which is assuming a lot of legwork/planning had to be put in before they released this. i havent got that actual book, so if anyone has (invincible?), whats the (c) date on that one? imo, this was about the time things really looked like they were starting to take off in a bigger way for JG, especially around the city state product.

i would be VERY interested in knowing what these items are:

11 Special Starter Package
$20.00 DD plus Asociate Guildmember Sub

12 City State of the Invincible Overlord Game Aid
$9.00

13 Deluxe Fantasy Package
$20.00 #12 + DD multi-sided dice set

if you have them complete, could you scan/show here what they are....course if you wanna sell them, i am CERTAINLY all ears :)

what do ya'll think of them thoughts. i wonder from product 0 to say product 15, how much time had passed. could any of this have been planned pre 1976. but not actually printed/released until after then?

Al



  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 3:26 pm 
 

i DID also dig these things out as well....

the 1st two items, don't have dates on, so not sure of their printing date, but the third item is (c) 1977....

Image

Image

Image

these are quite nice too...shoulda got hold of more of them when i had the chance to.... ah well....

anyone got the others?

Al



  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 3:47 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Do the Judges Guild Fantasy Catalogs, Judges Guild/White Wolf Catalogs, or Portly Pomp Catalog have item numbers?

Item numbers 26, 74, 79, 99, 120, 123, 126-139, 141-149, 151, 510, 950, 1050, 1060, 1080 ever get alloted to products?

ShaneG.


i Just checked the "Booty List" on the back of my Judges Guild Journal - Instalment M, dated June/July 1977.

The product list only goes up to 35 at this point.

Item 26 that you quoted above, is listed on the Booty list, and it says....

"26. No Item"....

so there you go, they didnt use item number 26. :D



  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 3:48 pm 
 

Al; the first two are the ready ref charts (JG#5), also from 1976.

Please note also the I-# numbering which continues from the "I" maps and continues in the yellow "I" installment booklet, since these were part of the "Initial Guildmaster Subscription Package".

@ Mike <IO>; do your maps without the copyright date also have I-# numbering...?

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:07 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:what do ya'll think of them thoughts. i wonder from product 0 to say product 15, how much time had passed. could any of this have been planned pre 1976. but not actually printed/released until after then?

Presumably had been planned beforehand, but when??
The stock numbers might not necessarily reflect the earliest part of the chronology owing to the manner in which the first installment package was sent out.
i.e. were the maps the only item JG actually released in over a year, or was there a stock reshuffling of any form in order to produce that first release?

The few hints that there might've been which I can spot are:
First; that the Tac cards (#2) caused all sorts of last-minute fun cutting-and-pasting in order to be ready for the initial installment.
The Players Map (#4) must have been done/ready by then, surely?
*
Second; that I'm also unsure whether there's any significance that the attack tables (#5, as above) don't have a 1976 date, as you note... Might they have been prepared/released before? Without "I-#" numbering?? :?

(Just thinking out loud... ;))

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:11 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Do the Judges Guild Fantasy Catalogs, Judges Guild/White Wolf Catalogs, or Portly Pomp Catalog have item numbers?

Item numbers 26, 74, 79, 99, 120, 123, 126-139, 141-149, 151, 510, 950, 1050, 1060, 1080 ever get alloted to products?


What are Judges Guild Journal Installments?

ShaneG.


Just dug out Judges Guild Journal 12 (with Instalment U)....item 77. This is from Dec 1978/Jan 1979, so product list a little more up to date for the time. Item 74 doesn't appear in this one (i chose this journal as it was the next one after item 74).

so there is two numbers down :D

Judges Guild Instalments came with the Judges Guild Journals, and were as follows:

Journal 1 - J - Thunderhold Issue
Journal 2 - K - City State Campaign Issue - A Wilderlands map (1 player/1 judge)
Journal 4 - L - Modron
Journal 3 - M - Tegel Manor

Funnily, at this point, it lists as tegel being in a journal before modron was (Tegel - Journal 3, Modron - Journal 4)

Journal 5 - N - Barbarian Altanis / Glow Worm Steppes Campaign Issue (A wulderlands map of both areas - 1 player / 1 judge)
Journal 6 - O - Valon / Tarantis Campaign Issue (A wilderlands map of both areas - 1 player / 1 judge)
Journal 7 - P - Thieves of Badabaskor Issue
Journal 8 - Q - Gencon IX Dungeons
Journal 9 - R - Village Book 1
Journal 10 - S - Citadel of Fire
Journal 11 - T - Frontier Forts of Kelnore
Journal 12 - U - Dragon Crown
Journal 13 - V - Wilderlands of the Magic Realms - Part 1
Journal 14 - W - Wilderlands of the Magic Realms - Part 2

not sure what X,Y,Z is as this Journal 12 relates to U (Dragon Crown)

hope this helps fill in some gaps on your research Plaag?

;)

Al



  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:35 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:then came product 3, which was David's scanned book, which i sent him a few weeks back. this gives you detailed encounter tables and beefs out information for the city state itself. quite essential at that time really imo.

*g*. Well, that was a scan of one of the copies you sent me, although I wasn't totally guideline-less, before. ;)

*plugs your latest auction* (bargain price for a copy, IMO)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5200976452

killjoy32 wrote:the actual guide to the city state wasnt until product 10, which is assuming a lot of legwork/planning had to be put in before they released this. i havent got that actual book, so if anyone has (invincible?), whats the (c) date on that one?

Is (c) 1976, too.
Image

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:41 pm 
 

LOL funny :D

its the last one i am selling for a bit, so whoever snags it is a lucky lil puppy!

like that CSIO books tho, great cover!! nice condition too.

** goes off to make a note of it for want list **

so there are quite a few items then that come from 1976, so surely some/all of these were around at the Gencon 76, and a few quite possibly 75 (specially the first ones....).... i have no other way of checking tho as i am a big light on the first 15 or so JG items *sulks*

Al



  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 4:59 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:like that CSIO books tho, great cover!! nice condition too.
** goes off to make a note of it for want list **

*g*. Thanks, Al!
(beware of cropped scans on eBay auctions... :P)

killjoy32 wrote:so there are quite a few items then that come from 1976, so surely some/all of these were around at the Gencon 76, and a few quite possibly 75 (specially the first ones....)....

In theory GenCon 9 (Aug '76) would still have been too early, if going solely by the date on the first journal (October '76, which tallies with Mike/<IO>'s mailers; thx).
Per before, that article simply mentions that they sold some maps at (a) GenCon (which was news to me, anyhow...).
Anything beyond that is speculative at present (sorry! ;))

*pulls stock list from the back of the Guide book*
Image

(The Guide book is #10, but the list already goes through to #17.
I did ask previously whether anyone else had a different highest number, but no luck on that).

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 5:02 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:(The Guide book is #10, but the list already goes through to #17.
I did ask previously whether anyone else had a different highest number, but no luck on that).


didnt quite understand what the last line actually meant....will go have a look if you tell me what i am looking for :D

Al



  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 5:09 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:didnt quite understand what the last line actually meant....will go have a look if you tell me what i am looking for :D

Don't know you're looking for anything, actually!
(Well, other than that Guide book... for which, good luck! :))

What I meant was that either the Guide book was allotted stock #10, but by the time it was released, "J" was also ready (which goes up to #17).
Or else, numbers up to #17 had already been allocated in advance...
Nothing definitive to conclude from that and unfortunately there's no other dating point on that list beyond mention of Swords & Spells (July 1976).

Think I'll go see whether there are any other hints re. JG publication history, etc., in those first few journals...

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4497
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Jul 26, 2021
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 6:33 pm 
 

Thanks Al, the different numbers for the installments confused me while getting things sorted (Haven't checked on the journals yet.)

Another question has cropped up, When did JG start using the yellow card stock for the attack charts, JG shield, etc?

Also anyone have a JG catalog? Does it give anything for the unknown numbers posted earlier?

Do the Judges Guild Journal Value Pack or the Dungeoneer Value Pack have numbers?...I'm guessing 1027/1028 as that would put it after the other packs, but that is just my attempt at logical sense  :idea:  :roll:

ShaneG.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 6:49 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Do the Judges Guild Fantasy Catalogs, Judges Guild/White Wolf Catalogs, or Portly Pomp Catalog have item numbers?

Item numbers 26, 74, 79, 99, 120, 123, 126-139, 141-149, 151, 510, 950, 1050, 1060, 1080 ever get alloted to products?

ShaneG.


1050 SciFi Adventure Campaign Pack

1060 Pegasus 10

I have five Dungeoneer Value Packs which are all shrinkwrapped and unopened. On the front, they have a blue A5 size certificate, but unfortunately, it doesnt actually have a JG number on it, so i am not sure if it actually has one, but i will investigate a little further when i get a chance to ok?

Al



  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 6:50 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Also anyone have a JG catalog? Does it give anything for the unknown numbers posted earlier?

Judges Guild - Product List seems to be a reasonably well sourced list to compare against. Fills in a couple of the later gaps, anyhow.

Plaag wrote:Do the Judges Guild Journal Value Pack or the Dungeoneer Value Pack have numbers?...I'm guessing 1027/1028 as that would put it after the other packs, but that is just my attempt at logical sense :idea: :roll:

The label in the Dungeoneer Value Pack doesn't have a stock number and it's not on the list, above.
(Doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have a stock number... :?).

re. other questions, JG1500 wasn't thought to have been released according to Value of rare Judges Guild items (sealed Tac Cards, etc). • Page 4 • Judges Guild •  The Acaeum

There may be a few extra/un-numbered items with may or may not have distinguishing features; for example, the "Collector's Edition" of the City State maps;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 5170001450

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 6:51 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:I have five Dungeoneer Value Packs which are all shrinkwrapped and unopened. On the front, they have a blue A5 size certificate, but unfortunately, it doesnt actually have a JG number on it, so i am not sure if it actually has one, but i will investigate a little further when i get a chance to ok?

(There's no number on the back of the label, either! ;))

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 6:52 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:
Another question has cropped up, When did JG start using the yellow card stock for the attack charts, JG shield, etc?

Also anyone have a JG catalog? Does it give anything for the unknown numbers posted earlier?

ShaneG.


The attack charts that i have, ie: I-6 and I-8 are not on card stock, it is basically on normal paper, as is the Character sheets.

I havent actually got a catalog - quite hard to get ahold of one of them - keep getting outbid, but i will get one before long.

Al



  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2639
Joined: Jan 23, 2003
Last Visit: Jan 11, 2006

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 7:00 pm 
 

Busy thread here, tonight... :)
killjoy32 wrote:The attack charts that i have, ie: I-6 and I-8 are not on card stock, it is basically on normal paper, as is the Character sheets.

heh, heh... I'll see whether I can get a scan without the banding, though.
Thanks, Al! :D

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat May 28, 2005 7:03 pm 
 

I was just looking at the "Booty List" in 71 Frontier Forts of Kelnore, and it actually pulled up something that was quite interesting. In a little section next to all the products was this:

DISCONTINUED ITEMS

Certain items have been discontinued, and their numbers will not appear below when no longer available.

its my guess then, that the Judges Guild ID numbers that are missing, are items that never actually got to see the light of day, and therefore, they do not appear on lists anywhere - possibly discontinued somewhere in their production?

Al



  
PreviousNext
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 2 of 3612, 3 ... 343536