As it so happens,
I use(d) a lot of clip art (Gustave Dore) in my latest project (Hell's Outpost). But wanted the cover to be something original. Seeing Eric's samples on line, I contacted him and arranged to use a couple of his pieces.
I think I achieved a nice blend of the two mediums.

Bill, if you'd like a comp pdf let me know.

FormCritic wrote:It's pretty clear that the clip art was driven by finances and not artistic tastes.
SNIP

This is also (or even especially) true with maps.  The computer mapping programs I see in use in so many publications were intended to produce color maps for private use.  When these color maps are slugged down into black and white, they look sloppy, dark and second-rate.  I'd much prefer a hand-drawn map created by a non-artist...especially for town maps, where the CGI sins are magnified.  These sins make a product seem ill-conceived and poorly produced.

I'll react to your comment about finances.

When I left JG it was very profitable and I sold at a ridiculous price. Because of my loyalty and respect for Bob. It's funny to say it now but I was walking down town the other day and had my initial realizations re this. I might have gotten 10 times as much from Gary Gygax (who may have wanted to have 50% share of cash cow as TSR's structure was so weird). And then it occurred to me that it might have been the best thing that happened to Bob (although he might have initially resented it) in that together they might have been better partners and mutually avoided some glitches that both faced in their respective companies. Oh well. I know that this seems counter-intuitive to employee-minded people (which I probably had too much of or I would thought of it 34 years ago) but sometimes the biggest, fattest capitalist might actually bring the best outcome.

Anyway, we were in the black from the afternoon at Gen Con 1976. Of course, I can't say that would be so if we'd paid ourselves retroactively a specialist salary but we hadn't earned that yet had we. If they added too many people who didn't contribute to enough productivity it's possible that finances were tighter sooner than I became aware of it. I was not at all involved in that except insofar as Bob might mention something later on. It would have been vindication for my focused preference  if they elected not to buy excellent art (when it was obviously available) when tens of thousands of dollars was "locked up" in hobby store inventory. I resisted starting a hobby store for the local market because I felt it would be a distraction (even though personally I would have loved to buy stuff @wholesale*) and its sluggish velocity add little to mail order income.

I think our strongest suit was our maps. And the fact that they were designed to be modified. This seems kind of obvious to gamers but it's not really obvious from the spectacular failures you've seen, right? Beautiful maps on slick paper seem artsy but aren't they impractical for gamers to add their own stuff? Likewise dark or densely patterned maps. I think I am agreeing with when I say that a gamer with some graphic skill can beat out a fine artist who has never played or judged a game and probably wasn't told key issues like leaving room for gamer customization. But his editor or publisher should have rode herd on the impractical points.

You're right that even when they had the right resolution the muddy B&W maps were a backwards step. Making complex maps in grayscale is hard work. But complex color maps have their own challenges including a lot of ways to offend the tastes of fussy customers.

I have since gotten a lot more understanding and forgiving about gaming supplies I buy. You might say that I go for the low hanging fruit. Too many times I have criticized some crappy job (in graphics or miniature table/troops) and all that did was cast a perverse boomerang 'spell' on myself. It mean that when I went to do something similar, now I had to do better (or be a hypocrite). And you know what, often I had to say that the 'better' wasn't worth it.  

*And I didn't realize yet the best personal reason to not have the stuff at wholesale was working at my hobby and while it sounds appealing, at some point I needed a new hobby.

I kept everything that I won from Bob's dungeon. He would draw these great maps, spells etc. Typically they were made to look olden by either some sort tempura paint I think but mostly tea bags (very into reuse/recycle then!) and the piece de resistance the toasted edges of these made with cigarettes or stove burners. And he did occasionally burn up his lovely artwork. These were labors of love long before we ever talked about doing a little service business for game judges.

So I totally understand the appeal of the "starter" (in your case) though ours were desserts! If we had been clever, we should have provided something from the beginning... ambiguous like what you described that the refs could xerox. I think it would have added even more value and I would have paid for that art if Bob couldn't keep pace.

Bill Owen wrote:I kept everything that I won from Bob's dungeon. He would draw these great maps, spells etc. Typically they were made to look olden by either some sort tempura paint I think but mostly tea bags (very into reuse/recycle then!) and the piece de resistance the toasted edges of these made with cigarettes or stove burners. And he did occasionally burn up his lovely artwork. These were labors of love long before we ever talked about doing a little service business for game judges.

So I totally understand the appeal of the "starter" (in your case) though ours were desserts! If we had been clever, we should have provided something from the beginning... ambiguous like what you described that the refs could xerox. I think it would have added even more value and I would have paid for that art if Bob couldn't keep pace.

It was those labor of love aspects of Judges Guild publications that made them worth buying.  You just cannot get any more old school than Judges Guild.

I voted that I might buy, and would want to see a preview.

The deal is that I can't spend much at all on my gaming interests these days, so my purchases are few and far between. I loved JG products, especially how they could fit together. But my interest varied from product to product, ultimately depending on the author.

So, a well-imagined and -written adventure or location that felt (subjectively of course) like the CSIO world would be a winner for me. If it didn't tie in to that world, I probably wouldn't be interested. There are plenty of old-school products out there already that don't tie in to the whole CSIO thing, and I don't follow them at all.

Bill Owen wrote:I also realized that I implied that Gary Gygax was "biggest, fattest capitalist" but in my universe that is high praise not a criticism. If an entrepreneur can ethically stay in business that seems like a roll of 11-12 on two six-sided dice, so I really salute them. Nowadays it's fashionable to either minimize a businessman's achievement or actively loot it...

I'll take it as praise of Hasbro, the currently-most-obese capitalist in the game. Praise it with great praise, & woe to all seeking to undermine it with off-brand knockoffs!

Hey don't knock those d20 rehash works. They kept JG alive until Bob died in 2008. We tried to get new material approved, but no one would let us write any. Writing new or rewritten material for OSR or Universal will not keep JG alive. To do that it needs to be written for the latest systems. A combined S&W/Pathfinder release might have worked, but like many I fear that ship has sailed. Putting out product that will only sell a few hundred copies isn't good for anyone except people on these forums. The hard core fans will be happy and the collectors if that. This isn't 1976, it is 2013 and there are hundreds of small companies that will sell pdfs in greater volume than your POD. You have to have a certain base of quality in print design now, also artwork and cartography. All of the websites are down and the Bledsaws have burned every bridge with their publishers. I hate to say it after 33 years, 27 of it working for JG, but it is time for me to say Rest In Peace.

I have been away from the forums(here and elsewhere)lately, but am eager to return with renewed vigor and motivation.

But I'm kind of confused about the last two posts.

Is JG , indeed, alive and active and back in the saddle again? Other than The Lost Man's trail and CSSK(--I do not consider revamping old material to the d20 system new material, even if it includes newer, by the author additions)...2 things in how many decades?...doesn't seem like much progress. If small indies like me can crank out stuff, what's the hold up here?

Does an OGL of any kind exist for writing JG adventures?

Understand I do. I've had a bit of my own family tragedy this year. So, please do not be offended by my quieries.

I do not claim to know how to run a business--especially one that might actually have employees. But I hope JG succeeds in coming back. Not with a fancy, frilly, shiny new product! however. There are scores of those being cranked out every day by comps and indies all over the place. Part of TSR's reason for toppling, IMO, was that it got entrapped by the $ and satisfying the kiddies that needed shinier toys each month. I'd hate to see JG return if it meant it was attempting to do that.