Tunnels & Trolls fakes
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Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:57 pm 
 

Just a warning for anyone who has bought some of the rare T&T items lately.  Some may not be authentic.  Such as the "reprint" of a 1st T&T.

http://tomeoftreasures.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=17628

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:06 pm 
 

And he just sold a few rare T&T modules (forgot their names but one had the big swastika on the cover).

  

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:16 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:And he just sold a few rare T&T modules (forgot their names but one had the big swastika on the cover).


That's what I was wondering - if those items were "reprints" possibly unauthorized as well.

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:13 am 
 

He is copying all the stuff, I is my guess.  I got several original rare items and I think all or all but one also came with the newer printed copies as bonus items.  This was when I bought some items in December.  Dunno if that's what happened with the this item, but that is my guess.  Frankly, I expected him to be copying all the rare stuff from Ken and selling them in the future based on what I read here about his rep.  I do hope the buyer here got the actual original in addition to a copy for the $1300+ he paid.  Like I said, my guess is that he did.


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:19 am 
 

From the post, I don't think he did get the original (just the reproduction) and from the sounds of his later reply, it sounds like the seller is looking to keep the $1300.

The seller did make copies of all the stuff I am sure.  He was selling reproductions of most of them.  I believe the price he was asking for a repo of 1st print T&T was $40.

A number of the items that he was selling were unauthorized copies - where the author didn't know anything about him reproducing them.

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:27 am 
 

I just went back and looked.  The Computer Generated Dungeon and The Elemental Dungeon came with both originals and copies.  The Knights of the Broken Cross did not come with a copy and I don't recall if The Monkey God's Curse came with a copy and am not sure where I filed it to check.


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:24 am 
 

Mars wrote:From the post, I don't think he did get the original (just the reproduction) and from the sounds of his later reply, it sounds like the seller is looking to keep the $1300.


Man that sucks.  I've given Kynan a bit of grief over the past couple of years but no one deserves to be ripped off like that.  :x


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:36 am 
 

That's more than enough money to hop a plane to address the issue.


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:41 am 
 

I was a bidder on some of his latest group of items sold (by Shipman/selling4u)  on E-Bay too, inlcuding the Nazi themed Knights of the Broken Cross Module and some of the other items that pip won.
I did win a few listings though (musta been items that pip did not bid on)  and all of the items combined cost me only about $100 or so ....
Got them all and they are all originals (I have no doubts).
Plus he sent me some other tidbits for free.

However, it looks to me that TFM was ripped off here and for a HUGE sum of money too.

A blog page regarding Shipman and his many years of Copyright Violations.

http://mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/outlaw-press-aka-jim-shipman-is-a-big-crook/

Ken St. Andre (An original publisher of T&T) posted a comment himself to that blog page a month ago (Dec 11, 2009).

atroll // December 11, 2009 at 11:40 pm | Reply

Shipman claims to have paid a British artbroker over $4000 for the "stolen" artwork. The broker may have appropriated all the art. However, he has been told to not use any stolen artwork on any Tunnels and Trolls products and to stop publishing them immediately. I probably should delete that old blog about Gristlegrim. A closer examination of what he sent me as a finished product proved to be so faulty that I grew angry with him, told him not to sell it, and members of Trollhalla not to buy it.

Some of the Outlaw Press products are legitimate, however. My novel, Griffin Feathers, features a fine painted front cover by Simon Tranter that I personally paid for.

Needless to say we are all very unhappy with Mr. Shipman right now. My followers at Trollhalla have been asked not to send him any more T & T material. I think Outlaw Press will be coming to an end soon. Wait and see.
--Ken St. Andre


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:42 am 
 

RaisedFromTheDead wrote:That's more than enough money to hop a plane to address the issue.


Yeh, I agree, $1300 crosses the "ass kicking" line for me too.  

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:20 am 
 

Hell, for that sort of money, I'd take a walk to his front door and have a 'chat'...  :wink:


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:30 pm 
 

I'll add that at one point I bought a couple items supposedly by "Dragon Tree Press".  When I got them they were not from any Dragon Tree Press that I was aware of.  When I asked about them, he said they were printed up by a guy he knew from the 70s that used the name.  They were however, new printings done in the late 2000s.

Other stuff that he published and sold (without the author's knowledge) include adventures from old fanzines - probably where the stolen art comes from to make covers for these and then reprints of other T&T related items such as Dimensions & Doors by Bob Liddil.  His excuse for the latter was that he thought Bob was dead - I don't know what arrangement Bob made with him after the fact.

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:15 pm 
 

How is it this guy hasn't been shut down or killed?


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:28 pm 
 

RaisedFromTheDead wrote:How is it this guy hasn't been shut down or killed?


There is a thread that just recently revealed what a scumbag he is. Its an amazing read. The first guy from South America posts that he is stealing artwork, and for about 5 pages people blast him for accusing the outlaw press scumbag, then one artist after another finds stolen artwork the guy is using for cover art, then the tide turns and there are dozens of artists finding stolen artwork.

So it happened within the last few months, then it takes someone to afford a lawyer and take this guy to court, and even then longer to get to trial, if that ever happens.

The problem is that this is small potatoes, even as much as this guy has done, and it is expensive, so more than likely nothing will come of it except public censure, which doesn't mean anything if people keep buying from him.

He is a scumbag... every dime you give him is just a slap in the face to the gaming community.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:41 pm 
 

Happy to didn't win anything from him  :?
so bad story for Kynan. I hope he will do anything to get his money back and to throw this crook into jail.


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:54 pm 
 

RaisedFromTheDead wrote:How is it this guy hasn't been shut down or killed?

Y'know, the whois info for outlaw-press.com lists the administrative contact address as pretty close to GenCon Indy, guys...just sayin'.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s ... 81&t=h&z=9

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:52 pm 
 

I am very glad I underestimated the price it would take to snipe that item now.  I hope Kynan gets this resolved quickly.


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:16 pm 
 

I recently bought paperbacks from him.  He included some extra items, one of which was a color photocopy or laserprint of a Lost Worlds book cover.  I didn't think anything at the time beyond "Well, that's odd . . ."

Who was it that warned against dealing with crooks?  Truer words were never written.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:06 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:Y'know, the whois info for outlaw-press.com lists the administrative contact address as pretty close to GenCon Indy, guys...just sayin'.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s ... 81&t=h&z=9


I immediately grabbed the zoom feature, expecting to land on the roof of outlaw-press.com.

I landed instead on an interesting satellite photo of a forest.


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:48 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
I immediately grabbed the zoom feature, expecting to land on the roof of outlaw-press.com.

I landed instead on an interesting satellite photo of a forest.


You must have looked after the fawn's & satyr's wild romp and orgy was over. :wink:


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