Pied Piper Publishing announces DUNGEON SETSâ„¢
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 21, 2
Author


Collector

Posts: 1
Joined: Dec 25, 2008
Last Visit: Nov 15, 2009

Post Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:18 pm 
 

Tomorrow Pied Piper Publishing will launch the new DUNGEON SETS line. DUNGEON SETS #'s 1 & 2 will go on sale at PPP's online store tomorrow at 12:00 noon CST.

DUNGEON SETSâ„¢ was an idea conceived to bring maximum game value to each DM's table, whatever FRPG system they are currently using. These are un-keyed, color maps with integration notes and a comprehensive legend that are presented as a contiguous, and exacting, dungeon setting. In studying the needs of DMs who all have specific campaigns with real histories, characters and plots of their own, it became apparent that the idea of mainstay adventure modules, such as many based upon TSR's old model of assumed expediency, has shifted greatly with the contraction of that market and an ever present need over the years for specific game material created by each DM. In keeping with that honored ideal, PPP will make a leap in two areas: in presenting challenging maps for expansion along different creative lines by individual DMs; and in offering supportive materials for these, such as booklets containing new and innovative monsters, NPCs, spells, magic items, magical areas and set pieces which can be incorporated into the map designs as each DM sees fit, thus expanding the range for them to continue "branding" their own campaigns as creatively unique.

Read more about DUNGEON SETS:


This is but the start of an eager endeavor for Pied Piper Publishing to bring a line of products to bear that will creatively grow with the needs of the DM and his or her players.  We look forward to your participation.

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2552
Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Last Visit: Mar 15, 2021
Location: San Francisco, CA

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:42 pm 
 

Anyone bought these?  Thoughts?

  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3066
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 30, 2015

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:52 pm 
 

I read it, I still don't think I know what they are.  Sound like Geomorphs to me.  Also sounds like they're going to follow up with M&TAs.

 YIM  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3861
Joined: Feb 21, 2004
Last Visit: Jun 18, 2021
Location: Milford, Michigan

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:56 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:I read it, I still don't think I know what they are.  Sound like Geomorphs to me.  Also sounds like they're going to follow up with M&TAs.


That was my impression, too. It just seems a bit vague.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

 WWW  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2552
Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Last Visit: Mar 15, 2021
Location: San Francisco, CA

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:07 pm 
 

Hence my wondering if anyone had bought them and could tell us wtf they really are...

8)

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2332
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Last Visit: Aug 27, 2017
Location: Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:32 pm 
 

Dungeon Set #1: Levels 1-6 is six dungeon levels, a cross-section of the six dungeon levels, a legend, and brief introductory notes.  Each level is an 8.5" x 11" page.  The total pagecount is 9 single-sided pages plus a cover by ATOM.

Dungeon Set #2: Levels 7-12 is also what it sounds like.  It continues where Set #1 left off.

They are not geomorphs.  They are maps of a single, unpopulated dungeon.  Secret doors and other features are included, but the DM must provide room descriptions, monsters, and treasure.

The only negative is that they smell like cigarette smoke.  PPP is hit-and-miss with that feature.  I look at it as a sensory bonus and a guarantee of authenticity.  :)

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3861
Joined: Feb 21, 2004
Last Visit: Jun 18, 2021
Location: Milford, Michigan

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:35 pm 
 

Brian bought one...Brian will buy anything... :D


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

 WWW  

User avatar

** Banned **

Posts: 1213
Joined: Aug 04, 2009
Last Visit: Nov 02, 2013

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:51 pm 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:Dungeon Set #1: Levels 1-6 is six dungeon levels, a cross-section of the six dungeon levels, a legend, and brief introductory notes.  Each level is an 8.5" x 11" page.  The total pagecount is 9 single-sided pages plus a cover by ATOM.

Dungeon Set #2: Levels 7-12 is also what it sounds like.  It continues where Set #1 left off.

They are not geomorphs.  They are maps of a single, unpopulated dungeon.  Secret doors and other features are included, but the DM must provide room descriptions, monsters, and treasure.

The only negative is that they smell like cigarette smoke.  PPP is hit-and-miss with that feature.  I look at it as a sensory bonus and a guarantee of authenticity.  :)


I'm not sure I "get" the product. Ready-made maps are fine, and useful for those of us who are cartographically challenged, but how does this differ from any of the multitude of similar offerings out there? 0one has a bunch of well done .pdfs of many different types, for instance, and I don't see the logic behind paying 4 or 5 times the price of a .pdf (that I can print out onto an 8.5" X 11" piece of paper), plus shipping, to RJK for something comparable.

If these are just single-sided 8.5" X 11" maps, not drawn by Kuntz (presumably), with little to no text written by RJK, then what exactly is the selling point? The fact that they are published by PPP? I'm not trying to be flip, but this seems like a really poor idea.


Ithaca Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2332
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Last Visit: Aug 27, 2017
Location: Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:56 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote:Brian bought one...Brian will buy anything... :D

So many anythings, so little time . . .

If I want an old-school module, then I'll buy a module from Pacesetter.

If I want dungeon levels, then I'll buy the Dungeon Sets from PPP.

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2332
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Last Visit: Aug 27, 2017
Location: Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:57 pm 
 

[Slightly re-ordered Sigma's text]

MetamorphosisSigma wrote:I'm not sure I "get" the product. Ready-made maps are fine, and useful for those of us who are cartographically challenged, but how does this differ from any of the multitude of similar offerings out there?

If these are just single-sided 8.5" X 11" maps, not drawn by Kuntz (presumably), with little to no text written by RJK, then what exactly is the selling point? The fact that they are published by PPP? I'm not trying to be flip, but this seems like a really poor idea.

For me, the selling point is that these are published by PPP.  Why?
  1. First come these Dungeon Set maps, and then come more maps and RPG support material.  If you read one of the links from the OP, you'll see that these initial Dungeon Sets are but the start of something larger.  I want to have a set of Sets.  :)  Here's another link describing what comes in Dungeon Set #3:

    . . . http://lordofthegreendragons.blogspot.c ... pings.html
  2. These initial Dungeon Sets will presumably support PPP and enable the production of more RPG material, be they Dungeon Sets or something else.
  3. These are not PDFs.

one has a bunch of well done .pdfs of many different types, for instance, and I don't see the logic behind paying 4 or 5 times the price of a .pdf (that I can print out onto an 8.5" X 11" piece of paper), plus shipping, to RJK for something comparable.

I'm a dinosaur.  I need physical packaging.  I don't read PDFs on a PC screen.  I don't read eBooks on an eBook reader.  I don't download digital music.  I want something tangible for my money.

And if I were concerned solely with cost, I could download 0one torrents all day long . . .

[insert anti-PDF rant of your choosing here.]

  

User avatar

** Banned **

Posts: 1213
Joined: Aug 04, 2009
Last Visit: Nov 02, 2013

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:09 pm 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:[Slightly re-ordered Sigma's text]


I'm a dinosaur.  I need physical packaging.  I don't read PDFs on a PC screen.  I don't read eBooks on an eBook reader.  I don't download digital music.  I want something tangible for my money.

And if I were concerned solely with cost, I could download 0one torrents all day long . . .

[insert anti-PDF rant of your choosing here.]


Oh, I didn't think they were .pdfs; I was suggesting that they might as well be. I can't stand reading from a PC screen, either, and I like physical products also. My concerns, if that's the right word, were more about the direction PPP is headed. The description of #3 answers that, somewhat, but it does appear that RJK is these days more oriented toward having others write, draw, etc., and stamping his name on the work than in producing more adventures along the lines of Bottle City, etc. Which of course is fine, but does not appeal to me. Glad to see that there's a market for it, but it does surprise me.


Ithaca Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

  


Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5635
Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Last Visit: Jun 20, 2021
Location: Wichita, KS, USA

Post Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:15 pm 
 

My copies arrived today, will be opening them up momentarily!


Allan Grohe ([email protected])
Greyhawk, grodog Style

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
https://www.facebook.com/BlackBladePublishing/

 WWW  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2552
Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Last Visit: Mar 15, 2021
Location: San Francisco, CA

Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:46 pm 
 

*taps fingers*

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand?

:lol:

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6276
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 20, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:48 pm 
 

Anyone care to do a review with photos. The info I've been ale to gleen from the website is sketchy at best, and there's nothing terribly encouraging at the moment. A good solid review, some photos and some details of what's being sold might encourage me to buy. I gotta say this seems to be a poor move away from good quality usable modules to something of undeterineable quality and usefulness.

Just my 2c.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5629
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Jun 18, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:39 pm 
 

Has anyone ever actually used the TSR Dungeon Geos? I don't recall ever doing so myself.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4491
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Jun 20, 2021
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:30 pm 
 

RaisedFromTheDead wrote:Has anyone ever actually used the TSR Dungeon Geos? I don't recall ever doing so myself.


I remember using the 6 or 8 sided ones that were in some book.  Basic or Expert set maybe?? I just drew them on paper, attached that to card board pieces and had a ready made and quick cave system.  Never cut up/tore sheets from any book or product and never will.

ShaneG.


I reject your reality and substitute my own

 WWW  

User avatar

Prolific Collector

Posts: 431
Joined: Jun 13, 2008
Last Visit: Jun 13, 2021

Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:38 pm 
 

Super quick review based on my perusal of sets #1 and #2 last night:

The format is a set of 6 dungeon levels individually color* printed on single 8.5 x 11 inch sheets of fairly heavy paper. (Not the weight of cover stock mind you; just heavy paper.) Included with this, also on heavy paper, are a sheet with a cross section of the dungeon levels (which allows you to get a better idea for how they relate vertically), a cover page (with Andy Taylor art), a map legend page, and an introduction page (not particularly useful, but gives some practical context for the use of the maps). These sheets and a cardboard (comic?) backing board are enclosed in an appropriately-sized poly bag sealed with a piece of tape.

* The levels are primarily black & white, but with many other colors used as part of feature denotation.

The maps appear to be mostly drawn by hand, with a few bits of computer assistance for textures and labels and similar.

I will likely get my money's worth on these things ... about $3 per map, once you account for shipping. Yes, there are cheaper alternatives for maps out there, but these are better maps than those cheaper alternatives. They afford multiple ways around/through each level of the dungeon, as well as between levels, including slopes & vertical shafts. There is a variety of room shapes & sizes, plenty of secret doors, teleporters, one-way doors, and similar. The amount of unused space varies quite a bit on the different maps, as well as between different areas on a single map.

Overall, the design feels reminiscent of the Bottle City maps, so while Ramsey Dow did the level design, it feels like Rob Kuntz probably had considerable influence in the concepts used for the map designs.

Though many of the levels have connections to one-another, most of them are easily useable independently.

The critiques...

They feel like they were produced on somebody's high quality home color printer, and so I think they're probably a little bit overpriced. (For example, they don't feel as professional as Bottle City, Tower of Blood, or any of RJK's booklet-format projects.)

I would have preferred them to be in booklet format, or as nested cardstock screens/sheets, like bi-fold module covers.

Each individual map is somewhat hit-or-miss. While some of the maps are really good and immediately suggest some creative uses to me (such as the catacombs in set #2), some are fairly pedestrian and have what feels on first-blush to be too many secret areas or small rooms** ... too much for me to meaningfully populate. Or rather, instead of saving time, my first instinct is that a few of them may end up costing me time as I wrack my brain for more creative ideas to fill so many of the small rooms. Even so, the majority are quite useful, and as I said before: They're better than most other available maps.

** I'm not talking about the one-way door mazes here, either. Those don't necessarily need much design work, though they can certainly benefit from it. I'm talking about large quantities of 10 x 20 or 20 x 20 rooms on some of the maps.

Color is probably overkill. I'd prefer an entirely black & white product. I will need to mark these up to make them useful in my game, and I'm *not* going to write on the originals (for a variety of reasons), and so I'll probably end up making black & white photocopies anyway.

Digitally rendered maps would be better. I can appreciate how some people prefer the hand-drawn look, but I prefer computer rendered ones. These maps are not, for example, as tight looking as even some of the hand-drawn ones from TSR modules.


Guy Fullerton
Chaotic Henchmen Productions
http://www.chaotichenchmen.com/

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector

Posts: 4750
Joined: Oct 31, 2004
Last Visit: May 05, 2021
Location: Garland, TX

Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:08 pm 
 

I think they are kinda cool.  I will probably never have the need to use them, but I like them nonetheless.  The dungeon maps are of much nicer quality, IMO, when compared to similar products.

Honestly though, I would rather see PPP stick with what I believe they do best and that is adventures.  Specifically anything that has to do with the Lake Geneva campaign, El Raja Key, Kalibruhn, etc.


You don't like your job, you don't strike. You go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way. - Homer Simpson

  


Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5635
Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Last Visit: Jun 20, 2021
Location: Wichita, KS, USA

Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:22 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Anyone care to do a review with photos. The info I've been ale to gleen from the website is sketchy at best, and there's nothing terribly encouraging at the moment. A good solid review, some photos and some details of what's being sold might encourage me to buy. I gotta say this seems to be a poor move away from good quality usable modules to something of undeterineable quality and usefulness.


Yep, I'll see what I can work up*, although it won't be until the during my holiday time off.   (*Since I wasn't involved in the production of these at all, I have no problems publishing a review of them).

I agree with Guy's initial assessment, but I think my impression is a bit more favorable, overall.

RaisedFromTheDead wrote:Has anyone ever actually used the TSR Dungeon Geos? I don't recall ever doing so myself.


Absolutley!:  see http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh ... os_low.jpg and (for a non-TSR sample) http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh ... -small.jpg


Allan Grohe ([email protected])
Greyhawk, grodog Style

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
https://www.facebook.com/BlackBladePublishing/

 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector

Posts: 3155
Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 05, 2016
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:53 pm 
 

Thanks for the review, Guy.

Guy Fullerton wrote:some are fairly pedestrian and have what feels on first-blush to be too many secret areas or small rooms** ... too much for me to meaningfully populate.

Actually that /is/ rather more like the bulk of those "original" dungeon levels, if so.

Kingofpain89 wrote:Honestly though, I would rather see PPP stick with what I believe they do best and that is adventures.  Specifically anything that has to do with the Lake Geneva campaign, El Raja Key, Kalibruhn, etc.

I could whistle dixie... :)

Still waiting for the bait to be taken for the extra kudos/interest points re. Kalibruhn continuing to look like it was the first actual top-down designed campaign /world/ over Blackmoor and Greyhawk; and for lack of anyone else associated with the former sticking their hand up.

d.


"7.3 ORGANIZING THE PARTY: Always have a keg, even if it's BYOB...
7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

  
Next
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 21, 2