Dreadmire
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:27 pm 
 

It seems to be a fairly solid source book if you can do your own filtering. It's more a book for a DM who likes to design and build their own campaign, and is looking for sources and structures for that specific environ, than a book as a set campaign world. For your money, you get almost everything you need to create and manage a detailed swamp/marsh environment, which, like ice and snow, is one of those environments most DMs avoid because they don't feel capable of making it interesting and/or challanging. Dreadmire almost manages to do for marsh/swamp what Dark Sun did for desert sands. One for the active DM or prospective author. Not really for collectors.


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Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:40 pm 
 

The only place I have seen one "in the wild" is The Sentry Box in Calgary.  They are selling it at the retail price of $30 US or $34 CAD.

I'm guessing the current seller on Ebay probably has boxes of these and at $10, they probably aren't even making back their printing cost.  I don't think they will be running out of copies anytime soon either.  They seem to be willing to list them at starting at between $4 and $7 or $8 so I don't see it being much of an investment book over the next year or two either.

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:13 pm 
 

I think the book has a good solid foundation, and would expect a return in a year or two. But no great return, not like you'll see with the CZ comlimentary products, or some of the Necromeancer products. It really is a product for active DMs and not for collectors.


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:19 pm 
 

One thing about Dreadmire was no different from most of the D20 hardbacks...

Its retail price point was 30 -50% above its actual gaming value.  That's why so many brand new D20 hardbacks are still floating around everywhere.

(Never mind the cost of printing...that is irrelevant to the customer.)

That said, I have to agree that Dreadmire is one D20 book that is likely to increase in value as the years pass.  I believe that the third party publisher books will out-value the WOTC books in the long run...particularly when it comes to hardbacks.  WOTC vomited too much junk in too high quantities to beat a cool publication like Dreadmire.

One thing that won't increase in value about Dreadmire will be the concept that a given copy is "new" or "mint."  Very few of these books will have endured standard gamer wear and tear.  The existence of an easily-available PDF file makes this even more likely.

As has been said before - the book is fun to leaf through.  It is jammed with good pictures and useable ideas.  

The price is going up and it is wise to grab one now.


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:42 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:The price is going up and it is wise to grab one now.


This may be an interesting one to reflect upon in 5 years.

Price depends on supply and demand.  I don't think supply will be an issue and demand is doubtful in my mind.  Over the next 5 years, there will still be lots of D20 stuff flooded onto the market at rebate prices.  Although it all depends on what you mean by the price is going up.  I recently bought 2 copies and the selling price is about $7 each, $10 after shipping.  I don't think I would have much trouble making the $10 back but selling them for $20 is probably going to be a stretch and cover price I think is unimaginable.

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:01 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
This may be an interesting one to reflect upon in 5 years.

Price depends on supply and demand.  I don't think supply will be an issue and demand is doubtful in my mind.  Over the next 5 years, there will still be lots of D20 stuff flooded onto the market at rebate prices.  Although it all depends on what you mean by the price is going up.  I recently bought 2 copies and the selling price is about $7 each, $10 after shipping.  I don't think I would have much trouble making the $10 back but selling them for $20 is probably going to be a stretch and cover price I think is unimaginable.


Depends on the initial print run. Very doubtful that it was 1,000

Probably under 500, since small press printings seem to go 100, 200, 250, 300, 500. Something like this seem to me to be in the 200 to 300 printing range

If this is 1,000 copies, then I agree, it is going to take awhile for the demand to outpace the supply. Couple of hundred, then I see this supply drying up in the next two years and after that it becomes a collectable.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:36 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
Depends on the initial print run. Very doubtful that it was 1,000

Probably under 500, since small press printings seem to go 100, 200, 250, 300, 500. Something like this seem to me to be in the 200 to 300 printing range

If this is 1,000 copies, then I agree, it is going to take awhile for the demand to outpace the supply. Couple of hundred, then I see this supply drying up in the next two years and after that it becomes a collectable.


Very interesting to speculate on. I would give it a 10-year chance to become a collectible rather than 2-3 years...it's a small press publication no one has heard about with no cachet, it will take a lot of time for people to realize what it is, and that it's getting harder to find.  Remember, kick ass stuff like Midkemia and Companions products, the same sort of small press but in the 80s, took about a decade to be sought after and rise in price. I was still picking up most Midkemia stuff in mint condition when I got on Ebay in the late 90s for cover or less.  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:55 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Very interesting to speculate on. I would give it a 10-year chance to become a collectible rather than 2-3 years...it's a small press publication no one has heard about with no cachet, it will take a lot of time for people to realize what it is, and that it's getting harder to find.  Remember, kick ass stuff like Midkemia and Companions products, the same sort of small press but in the 80s, took about a decade to be sought after and rise in price. I was still picking up most Midkemia stuff in mint condition when I got on Ebay in the late 90s for cover or less.  

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It was a small press publication no one had heard of, now it is a frequent topic on the Acaeum, and that can make a world of difference.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:31 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:It was a small press publication no one had heard of, now it is a frequent topic on the Acaeum, and that can make a world of difference.


This is true but that usual equates to selling maybe 20 copies.

Even if the print run was only 200 copies, I would bet the seller has over 100 left.  I think the real question is how long will it be before they get tired of listing and selling copies for $7 and then fade into obscurity.

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:06 am 
 

Mars wrote:
This is true but that usual equates to selling maybe 20 copies.

Even if the print run was only 200 copies, I would bet the seller has over 100 left.  I think the real question is how long will it be before they get tired of listing and selling copies for $7 and then fade into obscurity.


That might be true if there was no type of quality to hold up this product. Instead the reason it is being discussed here is because there is a great deal of quality to Dreadmire. Far from perfect it does stand out far beyond most d20 products. Right now it is a bit of a sleeper. It is a fairly unique product since no other that readily comes to mind covers swamps.

The Acaeum effect can cover sudden price increases but it also brings the obscure to light. In the short term we aren't talking about a huge increase in price, instead it is creating an awareness of an obscure item.

The book is well done, the author is controverial, the production is quite likely limited, I don't see this falling into obscurity. I believe it is making its small mark in gaming history.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:20 am 
 

Blood Bayou covers swamps, or a specific swamp.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:24 am 
 

serleran wrote:Blood Bayou covers swamps, or a specific swamp.


Review?

  

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:13 am 
 

As regards print run size, IIRC TLG said their experience of the US distribution chain was that the minimum feed in was 300 units, and seeing as this book made it to the UK through the US distribution shain, I have to conclude we're looking at a print run of 500 units minimm. Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely delighted if the print run was 200, just amkes mine more valuable, but I don't see it being below five. Maybe a little e-mail to Randy would clarify this. You never know, GG are open about their print run numbers.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:48 am 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
Review?


OK. Here. It is not long, but finding any review is nearly impossible. The book was written by Mike Mearls, though, which means absolutely nothing to me, but apparently does to some.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:57 am 
 

serleran wrote:
OK. Here. It is not long, but finding any review is nearly impossible. The book was written by Mike Mearls, though, which means absolutely nothing to me, but apparently does to some.


Ah the Scarred Lands, good material till you get to the end of their line when things really started to flip flop and writing suffered.

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:24 pm 
 

Yep, the Scarred Lands stuff was at least nominally new when it started, and I especially liked the monster books for the most part, and then things started to suck.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:01 pm 
 

My LGS has Talena (or something like that) campaign setting (hardback) and the gazetteer, both mint in shrink, for a couple of quid. IIRC they had a few of each. The also have a few adventures, but no MM or other source books.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:45 pm 
 


** expired eBay auction **




This seems to be the same thing. Seller has a lot of Scarred Lands items.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:48 pm 
 

Yep. That's the gazetteer.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:55 pm 
 

My favorite beastie in Dreadmire is that aquatic rhino.  Is that cool or what?

Who goes rafting in that swamp?


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