Dreadmire
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:49 am 
 

Haven't seen a good (well written) review of this anywhere.
Seems as though Acaeum brought this out of obscurity.
The PDF release is horrific quality, so should be avoided.
Randy himself appears to be a bit nutz. Maybe it's the image he wants to potray.
Wonder how many hardbacks was him minimum order. 500 units? 1000 Units? Don't see there being more than 1000 copies worldwide, and don't see there ever being a reprint. But could be of moderate value at some time. A good investment given the current sub-$10 price tag.


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:42 am 
 

Icar wrote:Sadly, the posted picture of him naked at the coke machine is burned in my brain forever.


8O ????  Thereby hangs a tale.....


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:31 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Wonder how many hardbacks was him minimum order. 500 units? 1000 Units? Don't see there being more than 1000 copies worldwide, and don't see there ever being a reprint. But could be of moderate value at some time. A good investment given the current sub-$10 price tag.


These are probably not numbers you will ever find out from Randy.  I remember reading his website with the updates and they were saying how the 1st print sold out and the PDF had reached 1000 copies sold, etc.  With those kinds of numbers, I would have expected to see the book in every game shop instead of almost none.  Of course, it could be that the "1st print" is really the test of 1 copy or something like this.

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:16 pm 
 

Icar wrote:I think the issues of plagerism and IP came up when Randy made an online attempt to tie Dreadmire to one of the swamps of Greyhawk. This created an IP infringment and Necromancer dropped the whole thing before it got out of hand. It's a bit of a shame because those who disliked Randy were the ones who brought it to the attention of WotC and Necromancer games. Silly behavior all around but Randy was the one to lose the most in the incident.


IIRC he set it in the Great Swamp south of Sunndi.  Plus, and this is memory working overtime here, some claims he had "borrowed" monsters from online sources without proper attribution.  I have no idea if this was true or not but I remember BITD the Greytalk lists were full of back and forth about this.

I remember viewing the 1st print "sold out" claim with sketicism, since I had (and still never have) seen a copy of Dreadmire out in the wild.  Then again as Mars said, 1st print could have been 50 copies or something, who knows.

I would also dispute the "investment" claim in this material.  While it may be a good read and useful resource, I'm going to go out on limb and say besides the fan that has to have everything, no one will care about this product now or in the future enough to pay premium prices for it. Particularly since there is a pdf out there floating around. It simply won't arise to the point of interest that everyone has to have one, especially when there are dozens of niche 3E related products out there just like it, only better known and more sought after.  As Ian says if you can find a copy or two for $10 or less, it's a nice pickup. I wouldn't touch it for much more than that.

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:27 pm 
 

It seems to be a fairly solid source book if you can do your own filtering. It's more a book for a DM who likes to design and build their own campaign, and is looking for sources and structures for that specific environ, than a book as a set campaign world. For your money, you get almost everything you need to create and manage a detailed swamp/marsh environment, which, like ice and snow, is one of those environments most DMs avoid because they don't feel capable of making it interesting and/or challanging. Dreadmire almost manages to do for marsh/swamp what Dark Sun did for desert sands. One for the active DM or prospective author. Not really for collectors.


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Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:40 pm 
 

The only place I have seen one "in the wild" is The Sentry Box in Calgary.  They are selling it at the retail price of $30 US or $34 CAD.

I'm guessing the current seller on Ebay probably has boxes of these and at $10, they probably aren't even making back their printing cost.  I don't think they will be running out of copies anytime soon either.  They seem to be willing to list them at starting at between $4 and $7 or $8 so I don't see it being much of an investment book over the next year or two either.

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:13 pm 
 

I think the book has a good solid foundation, and would expect a return in a year or two. But no great return, not like you'll see with the CZ comlimentary products, or some of the Necromeancer products. It really is a product for active DMs and not for collectors.


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:19 pm 
 

One thing about Dreadmire was no different from most of the D20 hardbacks...

Its retail price point was 30 -50% above its actual gaming value.  That's why so many brand new D20 hardbacks are still floating around everywhere.

(Never mind the cost of printing...that is irrelevant to the customer.)

That said, I have to agree that Dreadmire is one D20 book that is likely to increase in value as the years pass.  I believe that the third party publisher books will out-value the WOTC books in the long run...particularly when it comes to hardbacks.  WOTC vomited too much junk in too high quantities to beat a cool publication like Dreadmire.

One thing that won't increase in value about Dreadmire will be the concept that a given copy is "new" or "mint."  Very few of these books will have endured standard gamer wear and tear.  The existence of an easily-available PDF file makes this even more likely.

As has been said before - the book is fun to leaf through.  It is jammed with good pictures and useable ideas.  

The price is going up and it is wise to grab one now.


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:42 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:The price is going up and it is wise to grab one now.


This may be an interesting one to reflect upon in 5 years.

Price depends on supply and demand.  I don't think supply will be an issue and demand is doubtful in my mind.  Over the next 5 years, there will still be lots of D20 stuff flooded onto the market at rebate prices.  Although it all depends on what you mean by the price is going up.  I recently bought 2 copies and the selling price is about $7 each, $10 after shipping.  I don't think I would have much trouble making the $10 back but selling them for $20 is probably going to be a stretch and cover price I think is unimaginable.

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:01 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
This may be an interesting one to reflect upon in 5 years.

Price depends on supply and demand.  I don't think supply will be an issue and demand is doubtful in my mind.  Over the next 5 years, there will still be lots of D20 stuff flooded onto the market at rebate prices.  Although it all depends on what you mean by the price is going up.  I recently bought 2 copies and the selling price is about $7 each, $10 after shipping.  I don't think I would have much trouble making the $10 back but selling them for $20 is probably going to be a stretch and cover price I think is unimaginable.


Depends on the initial print run. Very doubtful that it was 1,000

Probably under 500, since small press printings seem to go 100, 200, 250, 300, 500. Something like this seem to me to be in the 200 to 300 printing range

If this is 1,000 copies, then I agree, it is going to take awhile for the demand to outpace the supply. Couple of hundred, then I see this supply drying up in the next two years and after that it becomes a collectable.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:36 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
Depends on the initial print run. Very doubtful that it was 1,000

Probably under 500, since small press printings seem to go 100, 200, 250, 300, 500. Something like this seem to me to be in the 200 to 300 printing range

If this is 1,000 copies, then I agree, it is going to take awhile for the demand to outpace the supply. Couple of hundred, then I see this supply drying up in the next two years and after that it becomes a collectable.


Very interesting to speculate on. I would give it a 10-year chance to become a collectible rather than 2-3 years...it's a small press publication no one has heard about with no cachet, it will take a lot of time for people to realize what it is, and that it's getting harder to find.  Remember, kick ass stuff like Midkemia and Companions products, the same sort of small press but in the 80s, took about a decade to be sought after and rise in price. I was still picking up most Midkemia stuff in mint condition when I got on Ebay in the late 90s for cover or less.  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:55 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Very interesting to speculate on. I would give it a 10-year chance to become a collectible rather than 2-3 years...it's a small press publication no one has heard about with no cachet, it will take a lot of time for people to realize what it is, and that it's getting harder to find.  Remember, kick ass stuff like Midkemia and Companions products, the same sort of small press but in the 80s, took about a decade to be sought after and rise in price. I was still picking up most Midkemia stuff in mint condition when I got on Ebay in the late 90s for cover or less.  

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It was a small press publication no one had heard of, now it is a frequent topic on the Acaeum, and that can make a world of difference.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:31 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:It was a small press publication no one had heard of, now it is a frequent topic on the Acaeum, and that can make a world of difference.


This is true but that usual equates to selling maybe 20 copies.

Even if the print run was only 200 copies, I would bet the seller has over 100 left.  I think the real question is how long will it be before they get tired of listing and selling copies for $7 and then fade into obscurity.

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:06 am 
 

Mars wrote:
This is true but that usual equates to selling maybe 20 copies.

Even if the print run was only 200 copies, I would bet the seller has over 100 left.  I think the real question is how long will it be before they get tired of listing and selling copies for $7 and then fade into obscurity.


That might be true if there was no type of quality to hold up this product. Instead the reason it is being discussed here is because there is a great deal of quality to Dreadmire. Far from perfect it does stand out far beyond most d20 products. Right now it is a bit of a sleeper. It is a fairly unique product since no other that readily comes to mind covers swamps.

The Acaeum effect can cover sudden price increases but it also brings the obscure to light. In the short term we aren't talking about a huge increase in price, instead it is creating an awareness of an obscure item.

The book is well done, the author is controverial, the production is quite likely limited, I don't see this falling into obscurity. I believe it is making its small mark in gaming history.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:20 am 
 

Blood Bayou covers swamps, or a specific swamp.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:24 am 
 

serleran wrote:Blood Bayou covers swamps, or a specific swamp.


Review?

  

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:13 am 
 

As regards print run size, IIRC TLG said their experience of the US distribution chain was that the minimum feed in was 300 units, and seeing as this book made it to the UK through the US distribution shain, I have to conclude we're looking at a print run of 500 units minimm. Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely delighted if the print run was 200, just amkes mine more valuable, but I don't see it being below five. Maybe a little e-mail to Randy would clarify this. You never know, GG are open about their print run numbers.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:48 am 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
Review?


OK. Here. It is not long, but finding any review is nearly impossible. The book was written by Mike Mearls, though, which means absolutely nothing to me, but apparently does to some.


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