RPG Geek coming soon!
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:49 am 
 

Woah. I guess I should have started my e-mail by saying, I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH BGG (other than being a member) OR RPGGEEK AT ALL. I AM NOT TRYING TO PIMP THIS ON ANYONE OTHER THAN GIVING OUT INFORMATION THAT I THOUGHT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO ACAEUM MEMBERS. THAT'S IT.

There. I've been away from my computer for a whole 24 hours, and it's feeling like I'm getting tarred and feathered here! :?

I don't think I can qualify to answer any questions that have been posed so far, as they've been formed in such a way as if I'm somehow responsible for the creation of the site. I'm not.

Now, from the posts above, it would appear Eryops is just another 'contributor' with no knowledge or interest in D&D, and unless he tells us otherwise, no means of contributing any worthwhile information to the D&D RPG community whatsoever. If he is typical of the 'contributor' who is getting all 'excited' about this new website, then they have another f'cked up website on their hands.

However, thank you for the thinly veiled personal attack. I do have a few posts... hopefully enough that it's clear that I haven't just created a shill account to pimp a website. Perhaps there wouldn't have been such a pile-on of replies if I had stayed glued to my computer and replied to everyone right away...

Sorry to everyone who I have caused great suffering and bad memories of your experience with BGG. No, BGG does not care about board games to the degree of some completists. I for one am glad that their database doesn't include 10,000 versions and separate entries for Monopoly. And no, I highly doubt that (actually, it's got a snowball's chance in hell of happening) there will be information on print versions or anything else like that. For TSR stock, I'm sure entries will be based on the TSR stock number, and that will be the depth of it. That's what 99.9% of the gaming community really cares about. The other 0.1% of the community has places like the Acaeum to turn to for the information they need.

So to get back to what the original intent of my post was - RPGGeek *may* be a place you're interested in for trading purposes and selling games (since threads about eBay screwage is commonplace).

I just thought it would be nice to say, "Hey, there's a new opportunity to put up a few extra things you might have for sale... this place charges a relatively low commission, and there are no fees until your item has sold."

I guess I was wrong...

  


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:07 am 
 

I don't think RPGG will be a bad thing in general, as I suspect it will also list D20, 4th ed, etc where the Acaeum doesn't.

Perhaps a link from that site to this could be achieved, so collectors or gamers interested in researching their items could head here for more accurate information only print runs and imaging etc.

As I suggested in my first reply, I can't see RPGG taking off in the collectors world of sales, but perhaps it will benefit the whole community by getting players back in with items they find.

I know I have found BGG useful for contents checking, remembering old games names etc, but where accuracy lacks, there are always places like here to get what you really need.

I think Eryops has taken a few hits here based on his original post, where it didn't seem he was promoting 'his' site, but giving info out on a new one.

RPGG may be a commercial, inaccurate or dictatorially run site, but I can't see it impacting the world of collecting too much.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:56 am 
 

Eryops wrote: I for one am glad that their database doesn't include 10,000 versions and separate entries for Monopoly.

Ironically, this is the one area where BGG is way too thorough. A games search for "Monopoly" returns approximately 500 results:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeksearch ... poly&B1=Go

Any clear-thinking person would see that this is just over-the-top absurd. And by "clear-thinking" I  mean "not a BGG admin."

Eryops wrote:That's what 99.9% of the gaming community really cares about.

Not true. Not even close.

It might be true for the general public as a whole, but it is certainly nowhere near true for the sub-set of people who take the time to search for gaming information on the internet. Many, many people from that second group care about the details, as evidenced by the flame-wars that erupt over at BGG whenever the tiniest of details gets changed.

Seriously, given your two statements I've quoted here, I'm beginning to wonder if you've even visited BGG lately ...   :?

+++++

Yes, you did get jumped on earlier; I'm not sure why. I tried to make it clear in my earlier post that we shouldn't be killing the messenger, but I guess it didn't work. Oh, well. It'll thicken your skin up some.

But I think it's very interesting how often I see negative reactions to BGG outside of BGG. From the top down, that place is horribly mis-managed. The level of resentment toward the management there is a very real thing; these aren't made-up feelings.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:00 am 
 

Eryops wrote:
Sorry to everyone who I have caused great suffering and bad memories of your experience with BGG. No, BGG does not care about board games to the degree of some completists. I for one am glad that their database doesn't include 10,000 versions and separate entries for Monopoly. And no, I highly doubt that (actually, it's got a snowball's chance in hell of happening) there will be information on print versions or anything else like that. For TSR stock, I'm sure entries will be based on the TSR stock number, and that will be the depth of it. That's what 99.9% of the gaming community really cares about. The other 0.1% of the community has places like the Acaeum to turn to for the information they need.

So to get back to what the original intent of my post was - RPGGeek *may* be a place you're interested in for trading purposes and selling games (since threads about eBay screwage is commonplace).

I just thought it would be nice to say, "Hey, there's a new opportunity to put up a few extra things you might have for sale... this place charges a relatively low commission, and there are no fees until your item has sold."

I guess I was wrong...


Just for the record I had nothing against the OP. You were just the messenger for what turned out to be a highly violatile subject here!  :wink: And I think the new site (should it ever materialize) will have some uses.

I will however disagree with one point:  a site calling itself "Board Game Geek" SHOULD have all 10,000 versions of Monopoly or Risk or Stratego on site.  If not, what's the point.....and if they aren't serious about Board Game collectors, we can definitely see where they will come down in regards to RPG collectors....

I think most posters here (including myself) are wondering what's the point, besides making money on advertising dollars, to create another half-ass collectible site when you don't care about the accuracy of the entries.

But Eryops I don't blame for this he just got stuck in the outhouse because of his original post.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:10 am 
 

The one thing that BGG will add is that it will cover most of the bulk stuff out there.  It probably won't cover it well but at least it will be there.

There are admins on BGG?  One problem with BGG seems that there is severe lack of admin on entries.  For example, Carcassonne:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/822

Does there really need to be 737 images for this game?  For some people it really has just devolved into a place where you can put pictures of yourself playing the game instead of relevant pictures of the game itself.

How many pictures of Larpers do you think will get posted when someone starts listing White Wolf stuff?

I think BGG is fine for what is - a site for board game enthusiasts not for board game collectors.  And the RPG side will probably be the same.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:16 am 
 

The problem with the Monopoly thing — and it's a fairly constant topic over there — is that, in many cases, logic dictates that there's just not that much difference between many of the entries. I mean, seriously, is there going to be much difference between Philadelphia Eagles Monopoly and Pittsburgh Steelers Monopoly? They are the exact same game with different names for the properties.

The other area of resentment comes from the fact that the Monopoly brand is sold to anyone who will write a check, which creates all of these "commercial Monopolies" that have a very narrow appeal.

But ... I suppose a detailed games database probably should list every different game it can find, even if the differences are sort of a joke. I guess. I've always felt the BGG treatment of Monopoly was way over the top, but I have to admit it's certainly thorough.

Part of the problem, again, is the way the database is structured (not to mention the incentive for users to create new listings; things like avatars and badges have to be purchased over there). If there was one central listing for the 1935 Monopoly game, which then offered a brach of 500 limbs, that would be one thing. But instead it's a tree with no trunk; just 500 branches.

I guess I have mixed feelings. We had to fight tooth and nail to get logical splits for games like Cosmic Encounter into the system, yet Monopoly gets 500 listings? Something about that doesn't add up for me. It's inconsistent.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:22 am 
 

Mars wrote:There are admins on BGG?

Read 'em and weep:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Admins

Here's my Field Guide to Dealing With BGG Admins:

If they post in the forums and mix it up with the hoi-polloi, they are to be avoided. They are generally power-mad douche-nozzles who were only hired because they are friends with the owner.

If they post rarely in the forums (or not at all) and do their work behind the scenes, they are generally okay. A message to one of these folks will generally result in some action being taken.

If they are Derk Solko, run the other way. He's a fucking clown. And not the funny kind.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:24 pm 
 

I signed up through google for the beta test. (There is a google group but it links to the beta website).

Right now the information being collected is a massive hodge podge of various game systems. It appears to be organized by title of product (and many of the titles are not listed properly) instead of by game system.

For example the Star Wars Adventure Journal is listed as Adventure Journal. It ignores that the system is Star Wars or that the actual title begins with Star Wars. A marvel super-heroes game MH-AC4 is titled MH AC4 - Adventure fold-ups featuring Pit of the Viper, but is placed in the listing under "Adventure..." Underneath the searchable listing they have a subheading for the game system, but some of these are incorrect, such as "Across Thunder River" (which should be Conan: Across Thunder River) and I believe the system should be GURPS and not d20. Other game systems have erroneous tags, such as listing TRAVELLER modules as Classic Traveller when they are simply TRAVELLER. If the subheading for game system is searachable (which it better prove  to be or this will be a massive haystack of a reference list) then mislabeling game systems is going to be an endless hassle.

While I find this listing format extrordinarily bad it is also incosistant. Some items are listed by game system such as Abberant and alternity while most are listed by product titles, but ignoring the actual titles if they include game system names or product reference numbers.

They are going to need a lot of monkeys typing on a lot of typewriters if they are going to make a Hamlet out of this. Right now it is touching on a few random products from every game system imaginable.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:35 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:I signed up through google for the beta test. (There is a google group but it links to the beta website).

Right now the information being collected is a massive hodge podge of various game systems. It appears to be organized by title of product (and many of the titles are not listed properly) instead of by game system.

For example the Star Wars Adventure Journal is listed as Adventure Journal. It ignores that the system is Star Wars or that the actual title begins with Star Wars. A marvel super-heroes game MH-AC4 is titled MH AC4 - Adventure fold-ups featuring Pit of the Viper, but is placed in the listing under "Adventure..." Underneath the searchable listing they have a subheading for the game system, but some of these are incorrect, such as "Across Thunder River" (which should be Conan: Across Thunder River) and I believe the system should be GURPS and not d20. Other game systems have erroneous tags, such as listing TRAVELLER modules as Classic Traveller when they are simply TRAVELLER. If the subheading for game system is searachable (which it better prove  to be or this will be a massive haystack of a reference list) then mislabeling game systems is going to be an endless hassle.

While I find this listing format extrordinarily bad it is also incosistant. Some items are listed by game system such as Abberant and alternity while most are listed by product titles, but ignoring the actual titles if they include game system names or product reference numbers.

They are going to need a lot of monkeys typing on a lot of typewriters if they are going to make a Hamlet out of this. Right now it is touching on a few random products from every game system imaginable.


Wow, Jason, thanks for the info....

So we were right...this was thrown together by a bunch of ignorant douche-nozzles (thanks for that one, X) in search of an advertising buck and nothing more.  

The only thing that can save this Titanic-meets-Iceberg project is if the powers that be are very, very amenable to taking tons of suggestions and making tons of changes based on users input.

Otherwise....

EPIC FAIL PREDICTED

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:43 pm 
 

Yeah, the beta test was generally an open call. They asked people to volunteer and then specify which system they thought they knew best.

So, you've got one guy working on Dragonquest, three guys working on GURPS, 11 guys doing D&D, two guys doing Traveller, and on and on. But there's no central leadership that I'm seeing, nor is there any sort of style guide.

A recipe for confusion appears to be the end result.

Prediction: train wreck.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:43 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
EPIC FAIL PREDICTED

Mike B.


I was lurking around on their message boards and they did have a thread listing everything that would be listed initially, and were taking calls for games they had missed, so maybe they will be open to improvement.  I expect this will be a little like the TSR archive for obscure games, I doubt it will be helpful for anything beyond contents.  And I would imagine all of their D&D info will be information taken directly from our site, ToT and the TSR archives.

As to the RPG expertise - in discussing periodicals, one guys suggested they add "White Dwarf," the response was "Is this a joke?  Never heard of it." before being pointed in the right direction.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:08 pm 
 

Eryops wrote:That's what 99.9% of the gaming community really cares about.

This just highlights how ignorant you are.
And if you are representative of the AHs who are writing RPGG and BGG, then you have just proven my point.
Probably better to go away now before people start offering you cake.


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:16 pm 
 

I have no comment on the new resource whatsoever, having not seen it.  

But it seems very much like it overlaps significantly with the Acaeum Wiki project, and with the RPG Marketplace site.  I don't see the need.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:04 pm 
 

. wrote:This just highlights how ignorant you are.
And if you are representative of the AHs who are writing RPGG and BGG, then you have just proven my point.
Probably better to go away now before people start offering you cake.

Okay, when the head Cat Piss Man has made his feelings clear to me, I know when I should go away... I hope you think your cock feels a little bit bigger now . ...

One more story before I'm driven off with sticks - I first heard of the Acaeum through a thread on another site showing how rude and assholeish everyone was here. I thought to myself, "These guys aren't really rude, and hey, they *really* know their stuff!" So I decided to give it a try. For the next year and a half I've learned more about D&D and it's history, collectability, and didn't really detect levels of antagonism that were above your average board. But wow, thank you for making me see the true colours of the Acaeum, despite my best efforts not to.

I'll be sure to pass on my experiences with anyone who asks in the future...

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:21 pm 
 

Eryops wrote:Okay, when the head Cat Piss Man has made his feelings clear to me, I know when I should go away... I hope you think your cock feels a little bit bigger now . ...

One more story before I'm driven off with sticks - I first heard of the Acaeum through a thread on another site showing how rude and assholeish everyone was here. I thought to myself, "These guys aren't really rude, and hey, they *really* know their stuff!" So I decided to give it a try. For the next year and a half I've learned more about D&D and it's history, collectability, and didn't really detect levels of antagonism that were above your average board. But wow, thank you for making me see the true colours of the Acaeum, despite my best efforts not to.

I'll be sure to pass on my experiences with anyone who asks in the future...


Don't judge this site based on a few posts, the majority of us are all about D&D history and collectables.

I think the new site will probably start off pretty lame (they all do) and may eventually develop into something. Anything to promote the hobby and help it grow.  The more sites that offer info the better IMHO.


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:19 pm 
 

Eryops wrote:Okay, when the head Cat Piss Man has made his feelings clear to me, I know when I should go away... I hope you think your cock feels a little bit bigger now . ...

One more story before I'm driven off with sticks - I first heard of the Acaeum through a thread on another site showing how rude and assholeish everyone was here. I thought to myself, "These guys aren't really rude, and hey, they *really* know their stuff!" So I decided to give it a try. For the next year and a half I've learned more about D&D and it's history, collectability, and didn't really detect levels of antagonism that were above your average board. But wow, thank you for making me see the true colours of the Acaeum, despite my best efforts not to.

I'll be sure to pass on my experiences with anyone who asks in the future...


Make sure to mention Bobbing Head Cat Piss Man (I know that is what I'm calling him from now on).

Honestly you've been rudely attacked by only a handful of acaeum people. It sounds like you are doing pretty well for being here a year and a half. Just use your ignore button (waggles finger since we have no ignore button here).

Have you read many of the threads around here? We just had acaeumers being rude to each other in collecting appraisel. We aren't a perfectly nice or polite forum but its world better than many of the game forums I've been part of on the net.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:47 pm 
 

Promote a site is fine, and this is the place to discuss it.
But to front a site like BGG and elude to the fact that you're contributing to RPGG and would like to name names, but won't, and then not be willing to answer questions, and try to defend the current abortion of a regime with exclamations like 'less than 0.1% of people give a f"ck if it's correct or not is just 'a55hole' in my books.
And to level that sort of attitude on the Acaeum and what we represent invites the same sort of response straight back.
I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.
I'm just willing to say it.


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Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:07 pm 
 

. wrote:Promote a site is fine, and this is the place to discuss it.
But to front a site like BGG and elude to the fact that you're contributing to RPGG and would like to name names, but won't, and then not be willing to answer questions, and try to defend the current abortion of a regime with exclamations like 'less than 0.1% of people give a fuck if it's correct or not is just 'asshole' in my books.
And to level that sort of attitude at Acaeum members and what we represent is only going to get the same sort of response straight back.
I know I'm not the only one who feels the same way.
I'm just willing to say it.


Yeah but I just like calling you Bobbing Head Cat Piss Man more than the acaeum member formerly known as Mbassoc.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:09 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
Yeah but I just like calling you Bobbing Head Cat Piss Man more than the acaeum member formerly known as Mbassoc.

I'd change my name to BHCPM, but I like the spot.


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:45 pm 
 

. wrote:But to front a site like BGG and elude to the fact that you're contributing to RPGG and would like to name names, but won't, and then not be willing to answer questions, and try to defend the current abortion of a regime with exclamations like 'less than 0.1% of people give a f"ck if it's correct or not is just 'a55hole' in my books.

See. This is what I don't understand. I thought I was promoting RPGG, but somehow I'm fronting it? It would be like me going to the RPGG forums and linking the Acaeum. Am I fronting the Acaeum if I do that?

What names am I supposed to name? I've already said that beyond casual membership, I have nothing more to do with the site. It seems that most people here know the admin names... what more do you want me to provide?

If there were questions asked in a way I could answer them, I would. But so far they have all been directed in a way that assumes I have something to do with the site. For the third time, I don't! You seem to comprehend the English language well enough, what don't you understand about that statement? And frankly what's the point? Everyone here seems to have preconceived notions about what RPGG is all about, and I don't think I'm going to change anyone's view. But if you are interested, try me.

Seems that since I didn't sit at my computer and wait for you to respond so I could respond right back at you, I've erred...

Well, you break down the demographics of the roleplaying hobby for me and tell me what percentage of them truly do care about versions and prints. To me as an active roleplayer and casual collector, I find it nice to know that there are versions of games but don't collect them all (hence "casual" collector). Yes, there are those who do, but it's a tiny minority of the hobby as a whole. If my hyperbole grates on you so much, please set me straight with the facts, and links to the data.

  
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