RPG Geek coming soon!
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:06 am 
 

I don't mean to spam, as I believe this is of genuine interest to Acaeum members:

If any of you are familiar with Boardgamegeek, you may be interested to know that RPGGeek is entering the final beta stages and will hopefully be open soon! If you're not familiar with BGG, you should know that it has easily the best database of boardgames found on the net.

The *really* cool thing about it is that you can use that database to build a collection of games you own, and use that database to trade and sell among other users (selling through the site is a modest 3% of the sale price - no listing fees or any BS like that). With all the troubles of the other online selling points, I thought this news might be a breath of fresh air. I've bought, sold, and traded on BGG, and it's nice to have sellers who do it on the side and care about the transactions.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:32 am 
 

I've been to BGG a fair bit in the past for info. I havent found the sellers prices very reasonable (for items I looked for) tbh.
But any site promoting reliable info should be good. I hope they havent 'borrowed' data direct from here or  the wiki though!
But as I said, BGG is interesting for researching contents and info on games, if not for buying :)


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 4:42 am 
 

I don't see it as spam if it's relevant info, and discussion about a new website confined to a single thread fits the bill. I've only ever visited Boardgame Geek a couple of times as the result of Google search, and my RPG collecting is strictly D&D related, so I don't see you managing to offer anything in those realms that would better the collected offerings of ToT and Acaeum.

But if you've identified a gap and believe you can fill it, good luck and we all look forward to seeing the result. I gotta say, maintaining a website (even a very small one) is a lot more time consuming than you'd think. So many get going, are maintained for a year or so, and then just die. Look at Afterglow and Afterglow2. Good intentions are easy but having the staying power to see it through are a whole different ball game.

Having been there, I must congradulate Plaag for the sterling work and staying power that had made the JG Subweb what it is, and to KC and AS (and those major contributors) that have built ToT.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:38 am 
 

I am curious to see how RPGGeek will look but I think it will still have the flaws that BGG have such as no real comparison of different prints, etc.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:12 am 
 

Mars wrote:I am curious to see how RPGGeek will look but I think it will still have the flaws that BGG have such as no real comparison of different prints, etc.

That's where ToT and the JG Subweb come into their own.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:02 am 
 

I don't want to be a smarmy a-hole, but if members of this forum or TOT weren't part of this, who cares?  This forum (and ToT) contains THE foremost collectors and historians of pre-1989 D&D in the world, and if they weren't consulted, or this site (or the wiki or ToT) wasn't actively "borrowed" from in descriptions, I don't see why anyone would go there for something they could easily find here.

The only useful purpose for this site is filling in holes for RPGs other than D&D (say, Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, Traveller, etc) as they are not covered here. Likewise an accurate base of 3E products would be nice to consult on ocassion.

I do like the database portion of the website; that could be very interesting.

I do look forward to the inevitable flame wars and battles against asshats who think their OCE set is a "1st print", etc.  It will get ugly when Acaeum members do post to point out all the wrong info that is inevitably presented about different printings and such.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:20 am 
 

Mars wrote:I am curious to see how RPGGeek will look but I think it will still have the flaws that BGG have such as no real comparison of different prints, etc.

RPGG has been in the pipeline for a long time and, in general, the more interest across the "hobby" the better IMO. Bonus points for a more open platform and less cliquishness.
(As to how the boundaries between boardgames, RPGs and wargames will be handled; that remains to be seen :))

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:32 am 
 

Eryops wrote:If any of you are familiar with Boardgamegeek, you may be interested to know that RPGGeek is entering the final beta stages and will hopefully be open soon!

ImageImageImage

Oh, man ... sorry about that. Whew, let me just wipe my eyes here.

This would be the same RPG Geek they've been promising was "just around the corner" since 2006? The same one that idiot Derk Solko keeps babbling about in every third post he makes over there?

I'll believe it when I see it.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:39 am 
 

faro wrote:Bonus points for a more open platform and less cliquishness.

This would be a nice thing, but it ain't gonna happen — at least not with the current dominant personalities over at BGG. That place basically invented cliques.

And I'm not optimistic about the results once Acaeum members (to use one example) start attempting to make changes to listings at RPGG. They absolutely fear and abhor change over there, and there will be much resistance to any newcomers showing up and saying, "this information is wrong."

I could fill this thread with BGG horror stories, but I'll refrain for now. Let's just say that I've never seen a bigger collection of people who need to unclench their colons.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:40 am 
 

Badmike wrote:I don't want to be a smarmy a-hole, but if members of this forum or TOT weren't part of this, who cares?  This forum (and ToT) contains THE foremost collectors and historians of pre-1989 D&D in the world, and if they weren't consulted, or this site (or the wiki or ToT) wasn't actively "borrowed" from in descriptions, I don't see why anyone would go there for something they could easily find here.

The only useful purpose for this site is filling in holes for RPGs other than D&D (say, Runequest, Call of Cthulhu, Traveller, etc) as they are not covered here. Likewise an accurate base of 3E products would be nice to consult on ocassion.

I do like the database portion of the website; that could be very interesting.

I do look forward to the inevitable flame wars and battles against asshats who think their OCE set is a "1st print", etc.  It will get ugly when Acaeum members do post to point out all the wrong info that is inevitably presented about different printings and such.

Mike B.

I second a lot of what Badmike says.

Without using the info on ToT and Acaeum, you are stepping on dangerous ground if you want to include D&D in your RPG repertoire. There is a danger of a lot of miss-information if you don't regulate and monitor what info people post, because there are a lot of ignorant a55holes out there. And unless you have D&D expertise on site moderating and filtering information you will be vilified if you allow incorrect information to be posted.

The last thing we want is a website that says a white box is a first print, when it's a fourth, and then have a propegation of incorrect information across the web and through eBay.

The experise in ALL aspects of D&D history and printing are here on Acaeum and/or over on Tome of Treasures. To try to move forward and present that information again when you are not an expert, and your target audience are also clueless, is probably very foolhardy. You may be walking into a minefield by trying to tackle D&D, and if you open up the posting of information to every redneck with a keyboard, you will quickly become a pariah.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:46 am 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:I could fill this thread with BGG horror stories, but I'll refrain for now. Let's just say that I've never seen a bigger collection of people who need to unclench their colons.

TBH, the reason a lot of people don't go to BBG is because it's full of sh't. I know it gets Googled a lot and a big chunk of eBay view it, but their owners and modetators are a bunch of [email protected] if you've ever tried asking them questions about things.

Eryops needs to decide whether he wants to be tarred with the same brush and the same ignorant [email protected] perception. I suspect he does not, and so he should consider an independant website and possibly tie up with people who actually know something about the subject before he publishes.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:15 am 
 

The open RPGG beta is coming. I can't say when - but you can bet it will happen somewhere between 1 hour from now and 100 hours from now.

As the closed RPGG beta nears an end, I have some random thoughts I want to share here. I was fortunate enough to be in on the beta when it started. But this was far from the beginning. Derk and Aldie had talked about this nearly four years ago. Lots of work was done by Aldie, Daniel and the team to rework some of the lower level code and make it more agreeable to expansion. Derk has been instrumental in finding quality people to help with data content. The beta efforts come at the back end of this important groundwork.

I believe the effort of the entire team to architect and seed the initial data can only be described by a single word: herculean. This effort spanned 50 people - I will not name them for fear of forgetting a single name. I'd say well over 1000 volunteer hours have gone into the RPG Geek and I hope that effort shows brightly when the doors open. I recall a three day stretch when a few heavy uploaders were posting 100+ new entries a day. I talked to Aldie one night at midnight... and when I awoke at 6AM to see what progress had been made he was still awake, typing at his keyboard and fixing issues so the beta team could continue to work efficiently.

I want to thank every beta tester who helped bring us to where we are today. Over 3200 RPG items spanning 1000 games - simply astonishing! I know the next open round of beta will be a resounding success if that new crew is as diligent, cooperative and helpful as you were. I love you guys!

About the only bad aspect so far has been that it's hard to resist all those awesome RPG covers. While looking through the data, I've had to stop and visit ebay to pick up a few new RPG sourcebooks. Oh well - such are the rigors of beta.

I'm so psyched for RPG Geek - "It will blow the dice right out of your pants!"*

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Who?

And who entered all the data content about D&D (and how much did they "borrow" from here, the wiki, or ToT?)

The only question will be how much data content will they allow to be corrected by us and how pissy will they get about it.....

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:18 am 
 

Badmike wrote:The only question will be how much data content will they allow to be corrected by us and how pissy will they get about it.....

Some. And very.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:39 am 
 

I would be willing to bet that this will end up being a bunch of rednecks that think they know everything and won't be able to deal with finding out that they know sh't. If it's the same bunch of ass bandits as BGG, then they are not likely to have grown balls or ears or brains in the interviening years. Let's hope they have a competely different crew, and let's hope they have the honesty and integrity to past their names and stand by what they post.

I have my doubts they would have the honour to do either, but we shall see. I wonder if Eryops is going to come back here and respond to any of this?


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:58 am 
 

Just to be clear, I don't think there's a problem with the OP opening the thread; it is relevant information that is of use to Acaeum members for obvious reasons.

+++++

Now with that being said, the most interesting part of this impending train-wreck will revolve around how RPGG handles printings and editions. Because here's the thing: BGG already sucks engorged donkey members when it comes to editions. Sucks hard. And you should see the hissy fits and finger-pointing when edition information does get switched over there. It's enough to make you want to quit gaming altogether.

But RPG collecting is hugely concerned with editions and printings, especially in terms of D&D. My guess is the geniuses at BGG — and, yes, it's true: 90 percent of the admins and moderators there are completely useless — have completely underestimated how important the whole edition aspect is to RPG collecting. If they haven't pre-built in some functionality to make it easy to later split listings ... well, then, the whole thing is doomed.

We're talking about a place that almost collapsed when Cosmic Encounter was (finally) split into separate listings; how in the world can they be expected to understand the nuances of RPG collecting? My guess is that they don't. The true powers-that-be over there are pretty much boardgame nerds; I've never seen any indication at all that they understand the first thing about RPGs. Frankly, RPG Geek has always struck me as being purely advertising-driven. It's just another avenue for income.

Maybe they'll prove me wrong; we'll see. But I really doubt it.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:13 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:This would be a nice thing, but it ain't gonna happen — at least not with the current dominant personalities over at BGG. That place basically invented cliques.

And I'm not optimistic about the results once Acaeum members (to use one example) start attempting to make changes to listings at RPGG. They absolutely fear and abhor change over there, and there will be much resistance to any newcomers showing up and saying, "this information is wrong."

I could fill this thread with BGG horror stories, but I'll refrain for now. Let's just say that I've never seen a bigger collection of people who need to unclench their colons.


Do you have a link anymore to that Cosmic Encounters battle you were having with some dumb asses over there?  That was pretty hilarious stuff.

I would like to say I reference BGG a lot while checking out used boardgames to see if they have all the parts. They seem to be a good reference for this sort of thing.

However, I have found ocassions when games I had weren't there (how? I am not even a collector and I found something not in their database?), incorrect information, and spotty/outright wrong descriptions.

If these guys think THEY are anal, they probably can't wait to see the shitstorms when they try to find out on their own how many printings there are of POTVQ or the white box, and whey it DOES matter what printing you have.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:27 pm 
 

What's ironic is that the CE split did eventually happen, and it turned out to be one of the last games that was split.

Not long after (and this is a perfect anecdote for why I'm pessimistic about this whole thing), a number of games were being split as part of a dedicated project to creating separate listings for different editions, different languages, etc. And the uproar was deafening. The whining, the over-reaction, the hysterics — it was like a tsunami of Nerd Rage. You would have thought something important was actually happening. It got so bad that they just shut the project down. Ended it; just like that, with about 5 percent of the work done.

And that was for boardgames, most of which have two editions at the most (and many have only one). How are these geniuses going to handle RPGs, where edition can be paramount? And how are they going to handle the uproar this time? Because there will be people looking to make changes.

Do they want an accurate database and a usable tool? Or do they just want another revenue stream? That's the key question to me.

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:32 pm 
 

The problem is that most of the moderators at BGG don't give a f'ck about gamers or gaming. I get the impression all they want is to have a website to say 'look, I have a website'. As far as games and gamers are concerned, they fall into the catagory of LW of TSR fame. They absolutely detest the small mindedness of people who play boardgames, and dispise people who have knowledge.

Now, from the posts above, it would appear Eryops is just another 'contributor' with no knowledge or interest in D&D, and unless he tells us otherwise, no means of contributing any worthwhile information to the D&D RPG community whatsoever. If he is typical of the 'contributor' who is getting all 'excited' about this new website, then they have another f'cked up website on their hands.

Eryops. Can you answer these questions without seeking advice from on high?

i. With regard to D&D, who has contributed knowledge to the website?
ii. Who has/How have you corroberated that the knowledge is correct?
iii. Have you proof read the information before you intend to post it?
iv. How do you intend to alter information that is incorrect?
v. How quickly will you alter information that is incorrect?


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Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:32 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:
We're talking about a place that almost collapsed when Cosmic Encounter was (finally) split into separate listings; how in the world can they be expected to understand the nuances of RPG collecting? My guess is that they don't. The true powers-that-be over there are pretty much boardgame nerds; I've never seen any indication at all that they understand the first thing about RPGs. Frankly, RPG Geek has always struck me as being purely advertising-driven. It's just another avenue for income.


Bingo.

You have to understand, unlike this place, BGG embraces advertising and it really doesn't matter how accurate that site is when describing different editions of POTVQ (if it even does; I'd be surprised to see more than a token entry there for almost anything).  All they have to do is get hits and people signing up, and the advertisers will kick back some funds per page hit or whatever.  Accuracy is a very distant concern; content, and tons of it (accurate or not) is the main fuel to run this engine.

Now, I don't think this site will be useless as a research tool, much like wikipedia isn't completely useless as a spot to quickly check out something you don't know anything about for general knowledge.  But I have a feeling that people who come to this for actual "knowledge" will be very disappointed.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:33 pm 
 

. wrote:Having been there, I must congradulate Plaag for the sterling work and staying power that had made the JG Subweb what it is, and to KC and AS (and those major contributors) that have built ToT.


Yeah updates not as numerous now a days, but thanks for the praise never the less.  Will reiterate though I maybe the one on the technical side of the subweb, but its been the members here and elsewhere that help to make the site what it is.

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