Upper Works review?
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:52 pm 
 

serleran wrote:
Only the Trolls know the print run. Maybe they cut it short because they knew they'd only have X months to sell? Maybe they didn't. Either is not an excuse to not buy the year -- no, the decade's best adventure.


Buy at least two copies and put one away. This is like getting a Mantle rookie card.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:06 pm 
 

serleran wrote:Either is not an excuse to not buy the year -- no, the decade's best adventure.

Unfortunately, in the grand scheme of things, it's more of a campaign setting with the beginning of a dungeon attached. A springboard for DMs to develop their own dungeons; but in this world of computer games, internet, and high speed computing, the art of slaving quietly for hours over a dungeon for your players to explore is pretty much lost. Yes there are the die hard gamers out there who grew up designing dungeons in their school jotters, but today's players on the whole rely on the internet and the constand flow of ready printed materials to play with.

CZ:UW is definately a star in a sea of empty space that most other publishers fill with crap, but it is not as sought after as it would have been had it been published before, and it is not as appealing as it would have been had we had more than one token dungeon level.

The product of the decade IMO was Rappan Athuk Reloaded. It has the feel and depth of gameplay that CZ:UW was destined to have. But TLG slipped when the rug was pulled from beneath them, and the product in incomplete. A chapter of a book by a masterpiece of an author, but the bulk of it is missing and can now only be guessed at by whoever is gonna pretend to jump on the bandwagon and milk the estate for proffits.

JasonZavoda wrote:Buy at least two copies and put one away. This is like getting a Mantle rookie card.

That is not bad advice. The market will be flooded bith hardbacks for decades to come, but the boxed set in mint condition will be sought after, and the accompanying hardback will hold it's value and likely not depreciate. Boxed sets, I'm betting, will be woth a mint if you're willing to sit on them for 5 years or so.


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:00 pm 
 

The product of the decade IMO was Rappan Athuk Reloaded.


Yes, your opinion. But, I am not a fan of 55% stats, or a $100 price tag at release. But, feel free to consider it superior, and I will continue to feel free to consider it less -- its a good product, sure, but not the best. Tastes are funny that way. I actually liked City of Brass more than RA:Re.


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:09 pm 
 

serleran wrote:I actually liked City of Brass more than RA:Re.

Is City of Brass a sleeper of a collectible, or is it just another 3E product?

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:52 pm 
 

zhowar wrote:No Upper Works during their 12 day sale ... any chance of a Upper Works fire sale before the end of the month?

not sure how many left. cheapest ebay sellers said asking tlg for more to sell but not come back on that

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:11 pm 
 

serleran wrote:Yes, your opinion. But, I am not a fan of 55% stats, or a $100 price tag at release. But, feel free to consider it superior, and I will continue to feel free to consider it less -- its a good product, sure, but not the best. Tastes are funny that way. I actually liked City of Brass more than RA:Re.

Don't quite get the 55% stats thing? And wasn't it $80? And for what you get compared to CZ:UK, I'd say the pricing is near identincal. If CZ:UW and CZ:DD were both gonna be approx. $40 a pop, the scope and pricing are pretty much the same. Unfortunately CZ:UW does not come with the Deeper Dungeons, and RAR did.

But don't get me wrong; I have invested a lot heavier in CZ:UW than any other product so far. I currently sit on 14 mint condition boxed sets, and 1 with torn corners on the box. So I am banking on this being a good product worth investing in. I've been shouting about how rare this is gonna be since the rug was pulled from under TLG.

It's just that, as products go, it was depending on the promise of the rest of the dungeons to keep it up there with the all time great adventures; and whilst it has an all time great co-author, and some fantastic writing, as dungeons go, it's missing way too many levels.

JohnGaunt wrote:Is City of Brass a sleeper of a collectible, or is it just another 3E product?

There have been way too many versions of that. Which one are we talking about here?

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:not sure how many left. cheapest ebay sellers said asking tlg for more to sell but not come back on that

That's not surprising. UK stock was very limited.

Badmike wrote:It's just damn sad about CZ. I've actually been very slowly going through it, with the knowledge that once I'm finished, that's it.

LOL. Yeah, I know exactly how you feel.


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Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:15 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:The product of the decade IMO was Rappan Athuk Reloaded. It has the feel and depth of gameplay that CZ:UW was destined to have. But TLG slipped when the rug was pulled from beneath them, and the product in incomplete. A chapter of a book by a masterpiece of an author, but the bulk of it is missing and can now only be guessed at by whoever is gonna pretend to jump on the bandwagon and milk the estate for proffits.


It's just damn sad about CZ. I've actually been very slowly going through it, with the knowledge that once I'm finished, that's it.  

Rather than consider it only one small part of a whole, I've been instead considering it as a completed product....a self contained 1-5th level adventure.  As written, CZ can provide many sessions of fun as is, without any further development.  Personally, I'd put it as a stand alone adventure area in a wilderness setting, and use it as a stepping stone to bigger things.  Nothing written afterwards with the "CZ" label is going to be compatible or of comparable quality anyway.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:19 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:
JohnGaunt wrote:Is City of Brass a sleeper of a collectible, or is it just another 3E product?

There have been way too many versions of that. Which one are we talking about here?

The most recent one released in . . . 2007?  2008?  I forget which company released it.  Necromancer?

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:28 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Don't quite get the 55% stats thing? And wasn't it $80? And for what you get compared to CZ:UK, I'd say the pricing is near identincal. If CZ:UW and CZ:DD were both gonna be approx. $40 a pop, the scope and pricing are pretty much the same. Unfortunately CZ:UW does not come with the Deeper Dungeons, and RAR did.

But don't get me wrong; I have invested a lot heavier in CZ:UW than any other product so far. I currently sit on 14 mint condition boxed sets, and 1 with torn corners on the box. So I am banking on this being a good product worth investing in. I've been shouting about how rare this is gonna be since the rug was pulled from under TLG.

It's just that, as products go, it was depending on the promise of the rest of the dungeons to keep it up there with the all time great adventures; and whilst it has an all time great co-author, and some fantastic writing, as dungeons go, it's missing way too many levels.
.


RA: Reloaded was $75, and it's taken quite awhile for it to sell at any sort of profit, as amazing and nice a product as it is.  That being said, taking the long road Ian, I think that's a decent investment. No doubt will repay itself several years down the road.  Unfortunately distribution was so spotty, and interest doubly so, it will take awhile for CZ to reach the same sort of status, IMO.  It helps that the time it's been available (basically, Gencon until now) will be cut off and many who aren't paying attention won't pick a copy up at this time, only to sadly pay twice as much at some future date.

But I would agree to you, it's a great set-up with not so great punchline.  It's really coming back to hurt us, the fans, that it took so darn long to develop the entire CZ line of products and we are basically left with only this and the Yggsburgh book and items as the legacy of EGG.

Speaking of the former, I wonder if Yggsburgh will see any sort of bump. Personally, the fact it's been available for so long at such cheap prices (I picked mine up in a TLG sale a couple years ago for $10, I think) will prevent any sort of collectible pricing.  Of course, in 10 years, who knows, they may be harder to find than brown boxes (and the boxed CZ doubly so).

I enjoy the super-dungeon discussions, very interesting points made on all sides.  I think CZ, as incredible as it is, is like Ian says an "incomplete" superdungeon and thus not in the same ballpark as say RA: Reloaded or Undermountain.  I'm still looking forward to running it someday, only in an abbreviated form.  Makes me sad just to think how incredible this product would have been had all the box sets been released!

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:29 pm 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:The most recent one released in . . . 2007?  2008?  I forget which company released it.  Necromancer?


Personally JG I would say yes to the boxed set City of Brass being collectible. I've seen a copy and it's very nice, as well as being criminally undersupported and spotty distribution.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:57 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Personally JG I would say yes to the boxed set City of Brass being collectible. I've seen a copy and it's very nice, as well as being criminally undersupported and spotty distribution.

Mike B.


It was the last Necromancer Games product released through White Wolf so that's the reason.  White Wolf got out of the Sword and Sorcery line that year.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:26 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:That's not surprising. UK stock was very limited.

from count you bought most cheap copies to the uk?? :lol: :lol:

Badmike wrote:It's just damn sad about CZ. I've actually been very slowly going through it, with the knowledge that once I'm finished, that's it.  

Rather than consider it only one small part of a whole, I've been instead considering it as a completed product....a self contained 1-5th level adventure.  As written, CZ can provide many sessions of fun as is, without any further development.

no words to rob?? it is still the same castle

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:39 pm 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:from count you bought most cheap copies to the uk??  

Sadly, I brought my stock in from the US (not thinking it would land here through the distribution channels), so my unit price ended up higher than most. I need these to become atleast uncommon and sought after to break even. But 3-5 years, I think I'm onto a winner, and I bet I'm not the only one who's bought some to stash away.


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Post Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:08 pm 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:not sure how many left. cheapest ebay sellers said asking tlg for more to sell but not come back on that

ok did come back with more on reorder just listed :) :) print run more than said would guess??

  

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:46 am 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:no words to rob?? it is still the same castle


If Rob could come out with more than one level every 3-4 years, I'd give him more props. Bottle City is a nice product; but Rob cannot be counted on to ever come out with another level on any regular basis (or, ever again).  That being said, his contributions would be immeasurable towards telling the history of the Castle.  

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Post Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:15 am 
 

Badmike wrote:If Rob could come out with more than one level every 3-4 years, I'd give him more props. Bottle City is a nice product; but Rob cannot be counted on to ever come out with another level on any regular basis (or, ever again).

was what meant no encouragement = little to no chance of more. only because people like grodog got in touch that bottle city + others printed at all
Badmike wrote:That being said, his contributions would be immeasurable towards telling the history of the Castle.

agree + much to tell and allow others to share + play but no more preorders -v-

  


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:11 pm 
 

Grognardia is reviewing CZ in case folks are still on the fence about ordering the box set:  http://grognardia.blogspot.com/


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:59 pm 
 

And if you are still on the fence, here is a great deal for this box set ($29.80 plus $4.49 US shipping)




** expired eBay auction **




I've ordered two from this seller and both arrived promptly and were well packaged.  Hurry now, only 2 left at this price.



Enjoy :)


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Post Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:27 am 
 

OK... The CZ UW box sets are selling pretty quickly at this price, $29.80 plus $4.49 US shipping.  The seller has listed three more:



http://cgi.ebay.com/CASTLES-CRUSADES-GY ... dZViewItem



Enjoy

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:43 pm 
 

smarmy1 wrote:OK... The CZ UW box sets are selling pretty quickly at this price, $29.80 plus $4.49 US shipping.  The seller has listed three more:


** expired eBay auction **


Enjoy
:)




Well those are gone now too.



He put three more up.




** expired eBay auction **

  
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