Upper Works review? • Page 5 • Collecting General

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Upper Works review?
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grodog
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Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:12 pm

The story is archived on my site @ http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh ... voir1.html
and http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh ... voir2.html

I'll let Mike relate the story itself.

Allan Grohe ([email protected])
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Badmike
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Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:20 pm

grodog wrote:The story is archived on my site @ http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh ... voir1.html
and http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/gh ... voir2.html

I'll let Mike relate the story itself.

I think there is a thread on it somewhere here. The upshot is, EGG wrote a story for a small print fanzine (that mostly covered PBM Diplomacy games, btw), The Conquistador, in exchange for free advertising for his then-new D&D game (this was in 1975). The story was basically a retelling of a Castle Greyhawk adventure by the character Erac and three others (I believe Ernie Gygax and a couple of other friends) to a place called the Black Reservoir in Castle Greyhawks lower levels, complete with flying dinosaurs, sea serpents, and evil mage. Anyway, EGG apparantly forgot the story even existed, not having a copy for himself.

In the mid-90s, I lucked upon a small set of the Conquistador fanzines, one with the Black Reservoir story within. Eventually I contacted EGG, and who was very pleased and excited to get a copy after all those years. With his permission the story was publshed on Greytalk, and for the first time in about 25 years the Black Reservoir portion of Castle Greyhawk came to light.

What's great is that this is a very rare item, and we are lucky copies survived, as I have only heard of a very small handful still around (like, maybe two others). I actually saw another copy this year at Gencon, it was the Black Reservoir story in another later issue of Conquistador (obviously the editor reprinted the tale at a later time, maybe he and EGG had worked out some sort of mulitple publication for free advertising). I guess the most interesting part is just the fact EGG completely FORGOT he had even written the tale until I sent him a copy; wonder if there are any other "forgotten" EGG tales floating around out there no one has located yet? Better check out all the mid-70s fanzines you find just in case!!!

I'd urge anyone interested to go to Grodog's site and read the story; it's brief but memorable, and it's hard after reading to not start jonesing for a little Castle Greyhawk action! Maybe someone someday can work up a "Black Reservoir" level based on the info within...

Mike B.

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grodog
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Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:56 pm

Badmike wrote:I'd urge anyone interested to go to Grodog's site and read the story; it's brief but memorable, and it's hard after reading to not start jonesing for a little Castle Greyhawk action! Maybe someone someday can work up a "Black Reservoir" level based on the info within...

FWIW, I will map the story at some point soon, as part of my EGG tribute efforts.

Allan Grohe ([email protected])
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Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
https://www.facebook.com/BlackBladePublishing/

bombadil
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Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:48 pm

Sci-Fi Genre also has it for $35.95 and reasonable shipping:

http://www.scifigenre.com/itemDetail.as ... ddedType=1

Let mirth prevail!

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:12 pm

bombadil wrote:Sci-Fi Genre also has it for $35.95 and reasonable shipping:

http://www.scifigenre.com/itemDetail.as ... ddedType=1

They offer free domestic shipping on orders over $75. Very reasonable.

Why these sets are being sold at a %20 discount brand new is beyond me, but they are probably going to jump from discounted to collectable very quickly.

What was the print run on this set?

Zenopus
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:26 pm

The Yggsburgh hardback is now $10 ($17.50 with shipping) and will no longer be available after the 31st.
(FYI, it's been sold at $10 previously during periodic sales)

http://www.trolllord.com/12days_of_xmas.html

On the eleventh day of Christmas my Troll Lord sent to me...
Any HARDBACK book for $10.00!!!!...
Use the paypal buttons to the LEFT, on the PAGE. In the "Add special instructions to merchant" section - please put the TITLE of the book of your choice in the memo section of your paypal receipt. The Players Handbook 3rd printing and the M&T 2nd printing are almost sold out, get them while you can! And Gary Gygax's Yggsburgh will no longer be available after the 31st of this month!

(Or you can also get a free Yggsburgh with a Crusader subscription)

No Upper Works during their 12 day sale ... any chance of a Upper Works fire sale before the end of the month? Will they really trash all of their remaining unsold stock, or instead sell it off bulk at a big discount to a 3rd party (e.g. Noble Knight)? Or was the printing low enough that they'll sell out without problem?

Plaag
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:41 am

I imagine they and Goodman will sell to a 3rd party all their old stock, but that's just my guess. I really can't see them destroying what is already printed.
Now if Steve would reply to my email..I need to replace book 5 if possible from the Upper Works since some of it got cut wrong. If not really no biggie.

ShaneG.

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copycat
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:52 am

any chance of a Upper Works fire sale before the end of the month?

Don't count on it.

Will they really trash all of their remaining unsold stock, or instead sell it off bulk at a big discount to a 3rd party (e.g. Noble Knight)?

One or the other. But, I don't think it'll be sold at a "big discount."

Or was the printing low enough that they'll sell out without problem?

Only the Trolls know the print run. Maybe they cut it short because they knew they'd only have X months to sell? Maybe they didn't. Either is not an excuse to not buy the year -- no, the decade's best adventure.

Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:52 pm

serleran wrote:
Only the Trolls know the print run. Maybe they cut it short because they knew they'd only have X months to sell? Maybe they didn't. Either is not an excuse to not buy the year -- no, the decade's best adventure.

Buy at least two copies and put one away. This is like getting a Mantle rookie card.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:06 pm

serleran wrote:Either is not an excuse to not buy the year -- no, the decade's best adventure.

Unfortunately, in the grand scheme of things, it's more of a campaign setting with the beginning of a dungeon attached. A springboard for DMs to develop their own dungeons; but in this world of computer games, internet, and high speed computing, the art of slaving quietly for hours over a dungeon for your players to explore is pretty much lost. Yes there are the die hard gamers out there who grew up designing dungeons in their school jotters, but today's players on the whole rely on the internet and the constand flow of ready printed materials to play with.

CZ:UW is definately a star in a sea of empty space that most other publishers fill with crap, but it is not as sought after as it would have been had it been published before, and it is not as appealing as it would have been had we had more than one token dungeon level.

The product of the decade IMO was Rappan Athuk Reloaded. It has the feel and depth of gameplay that CZ:UW was destined to have. But TLG slipped when the rug was pulled from beneath them, and the product in incomplete. A chapter of a book by a masterpiece of an author, but the bulk of it is missing and can now only be guessed at by whoever is gonna pretend to jump on the bandwagon and milk the estate for proffits.

JasonZavoda wrote:Buy at least two copies and put one away. This is like getting a Mantle rookie card.

That is not bad advice. The market will be flooded bith hardbacks for decades to come, but the boxed set in mint condition will be sought after, and the accompanying hardback will hold it's value and likely not depreciate. Boxed sets, I'm betting, will be woth a mint if you're willing to sit on them for 5 years or so.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

copycat
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:00 pm

The product of the decade IMO was Rappan Athuk Reloaded.

Yes, your opinion. But, I am not a fan of 55% stats, or a $100 price tag at release. But, feel free to consider it superior, and I will continue to feel free to consider it less -- its a good product, sure, but not the best. Tastes are funny that way. I actually liked City of Brass more than RA:Re.

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JohnGaunt
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:09 pm

serleran wrote:I actually liked City of Brass more than RA:Re.

Is City of Brass a sleeper of a collectible, or is it just another 3E product?

Rakeesh sah Tarna
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:52 pm

zhowar wrote:No Upper Works during their 12 day sale ... any chance of a Upper Works fire sale before the end of the month?

not sure how many left. cheapest ebay sellers said asking tlg for more to sell but not come back on that

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:11 pm

serleran wrote:Yes, your opinion. But, I am not a fan of 55% stats, or a $100 price tag at release. But, feel free to consider it superior, and I will continue to feel free to consider it less -- its a good product, sure, but not the best. Tastes are funny that way. I actually liked City of Brass more than RA:Re.

Don't quite get the 55% stats thing? And wasn't it $80? And for what you get compared to CZ:UK, I'd say the pricing is near identincal. If CZ:UW and CZ:DD were both gonna be approx. $40 a pop, the scope and pricing are pretty much the same. Unfortunately CZ:UW does not come with the Deeper Dungeons, and RAR did.

But don't get me wrong; I have invested a lot heavier in CZ:UW than any other product so far. I currently sit on 14 mint condition boxed sets, and 1 with torn corners on the box. So I am banking on this being a good product worth investing in. I've been shouting about how rare this is gonna be since the rug was pulled from under TLG.

It's just that, as products go, it was depending on the promise of the rest of the dungeons to keep it up there with the all time great adventures; and whilst it has an all time great co-author, and some fantastic writing, as dungeons go, it's missing way too many levels.

JohnGaunt wrote:Is City of Brass a sleeper of a collectible, or is it just another 3E product?

There have been way too many versions of that. Which one are we talking about here?

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:not sure how many left. cheapest ebay sellers said asking tlg for more to sell but not come back on that

That's not surprising. UK stock was very limited.

Badmike wrote:It's just damn sad about CZ. I've actually been very slowly going through it, with the knowledge that once I'm finished, that's it.

LOL. Yeah, I know exactly how you feel.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Badmike
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:15 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:The product of the decade IMO was Rappan Athuk Reloaded. It has the feel and depth of gameplay that CZ:UW was destined to have. But TLG slipped when the rug was pulled from beneath them, and the product in incomplete. A chapter of a book by a masterpiece of an author, but the bulk of it is missing and can now only be guessed at by whoever is gonna pretend to jump on the bandwagon and milk the estate for proffits.

It's just damn sad about CZ. I've actually been very slowly going through it, with the knowledge that once I'm finished, that's it.

Rather than consider it only one small part of a whole, I've been instead considering it as a completed product....a self contained 1-5th level adventure. As written, CZ can provide many sessions of fun as is, without any further development. Personally, I'd put it as a stand alone adventure area in a wilderness setting, and use it as a stepping stone to bigger things. Nothing written afterwards with the "CZ" label is going to be compatible or of comparable quality anyway.

Mike B.

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JohnGaunt
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:19 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:
JohnGaunt wrote:Is City of Brass a sleeper of a collectible, or is it just another 3E product?

There have been way too many versions of that. Which one are we talking about here?

The most recent one released in . . . 2007? 2008? I forget which company released it. Necromancer?

Badmike
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:28 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:Don't quite get the 55% stats thing? And wasn't it $80? And for what you get compared to CZ:UK, I'd say the pricing is near identincal. If CZ:UW and CZ:DD were both gonna be approx. $40 a pop, the scope and pricing are pretty much the same. Unfortunately CZ:UW does not come with the Deeper Dungeons, and RAR did.

But don't get me wrong; I have invested a lot heavier in CZ:UW than any other product so far. I currently sit on 14 mint condition boxed sets, and 1 with torn corners on the box. So I am banking on this being a good product worth investing in. I've been shouting about how rare this is gonna be since the rug was pulled from under TLG.

It's just that, as products go, it was depending on the promise of the rest of the dungeons to keep it up there with the all time great adventures; and whilst it has an all time great co-author, and some fantastic writing, as dungeons go, it's missing way too many levels.
.

RA: Reloaded was $75, and it's taken quite awhile for it to sell at any sort of profit, as amazing and nice a product as it is. That being said, taking the long road Ian, I think that's a decent investment. No doubt will repay itself several years down the road. Unfortunately distribution was so spotty, and interest doubly so, it will take awhile for CZ to reach the same sort of status, IMO. It helps that the time it's been available (basically, Gencon until now) will be cut off and many who aren't paying attention won't pick a copy up at this time, only to sadly pay twice as much at some future date.

But I would agree to you, it's a great set-up with not so great punchline. It's really coming back to hurt us, the fans, that it took so darn long to develop the entire CZ line of products and we are basically left with only this and the Yggsburgh book and items as the legacy of EGG.

Speaking of the former, I wonder if Yggsburgh will see any sort of bump. Personally, the fact it's been available for so long at such cheap prices (I picked mine up in a TLG sale a couple years ago for $10, I think) will prevent any sort of collectible pricing. Of course, in 10 years, who knows, they may be harder to find than brown boxes (and the boxed CZ doubly so).

I enjoy the super-dungeon discussions, very interesting points made on all sides. I think CZ, as incredible as it is, is like Ian says an "incomplete" superdungeon and thus not in the same ballpark as say RA: Reloaded or Undermountain. I'm still looking forward to running it someday, only in an abbreviated form. Makes me sad just to think how incredible this product would have been had all the box sets been released!

Mike B.

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Badmike
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:29 pm

JohnGaunt wrote:The most recent one released in . . . 2007? 2008? I forget which company released it. Necromancer?

Personally JG I would say yes to the boxed set City of Brass being collectible. I've seen a copy and it's very nice, as well as being criminally undersupported and spotty distribution.

Mike B.

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