Upper Works review?
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:25 am 
 

serleran wrote:The number of copies is not less than 500.

Care to put an approximate figure on it?
Greater than 600?


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:52 am 
 

serleran, is it greater then 1, less then a million? Okay that and everyone else can stop asking :wink:

Is it less or more then the amount of cholesterol from that Bacon Explosion you made?

If that number was represented as hit points, what level character would it be?

:P  :lol: Keep it to yourself, don't fall into the traps of people spouting numbers.

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:50 am 
 

Well, it seems to be greater that 500 and less that 700.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:49 am 
 

When the news broke that GG had pulled the license from TLG, I figured there would have been a mad rush by both casual gamers and collectors to get as many copies as they could, considering the price was really low compared to the quality and quantity of material included in CZ:UW. I would have guessed at least a few thousand were snatched up before the deadline for TLG to pulp the rest came and went.

However, I'd think if there were thousands of copies they'd be more widely available (at whatever price). Not everyone is a reseller, and there are always people who aren't impressed with any given product and simply want to get their money back on it, or who don't know that the thing might actually be a bit valuable. But it seems pretty scare to me over the last few months, with comparatively few copies available for any price.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:24 am 
 

Grognard wrote:When the news broke that GG had pulled the license from TLG, I figured there would have been a mad rush by both casual gamers and collectors to get as many copies as they could, considering the price was really low compared to the quality and quantity of material included in CZ:UW. I would have guessed at least a few thousand were snatched up before the deadline for TLG to pulp the rest came and went.

However, I'd think if there were thousands of copies they'd be more widely available (at whatever price). Not everyone is a reseller, and there are always people who aren't impressed with any given product and simply want to get their money back on it, or who don't know that the thing might actually be a bit valuable. But it seems pretty scare to me over the last few months, with comparatively few copies available for any price.

Serl already indicated less that 700 in an earlier post.
Now he's indicated greater than 500. That's how we're narrowing it down.
That already makes it rarer that Rappan Athuk Reloaded for a remarkably recent publication. Your purchases, damaged as the boxes are, are probably worth over $100 each at the moments. Of those  reading this thread, we are probably accounting for maybe 70-80 copies stock piled in small quants (well, except for JZ). If the bulk of the balance went to GH fans and C&C fans as earlier adoptors, I doubt we'll ever see many of these on eBay in the future. A couple of dozen a year at the moment as people cash in on the early price hike. But they'll disappear quickly enough. I agree, we could see $500 a piece on mint copies within 5 years. Only a reprint will cap the price of this boxed set in the long term.

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:36 am 
 

. wrote: Only a reprint will cap the price of this boxed set in the long term.


Not bloody likely to happen at this point. Even if there was another print by some miracle, how many would TLG or GG be willing to risk capital on? A thousand maybe? I think even in that case, CZ:UW will remain eminently collectible. I can't see it having a large print run even if someone was willing to go through all of the legal wrangling to make it happen.

As well, the copies that are out there now are still a "first print," and have the distinction of being the print "that was canceled" that might (or might not) add some value to it even if a reprint was done at some time.

On the one hand, that makes for a valuable collectible in my hands, but on the other hand its a shame that after 30ish years of waiting for at least something from Castle GH to come out, it won't ever be seen by many folks. Particularly given that the product is a pretty darn good one, warts and all. In fact, its the only thing TLG ever produced that I was actually impressed with.

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:57 pm 
 

Imagine if CZ:UW was published with Necromancer Games' quality and production instead of TLG's.
As a collectable, TLG's poor manufacture and cheap printing make for a good price spread eventually between mint and non-mint copies.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:20 pm 
 

. wrote:Imagine if CZ:UW was published with Necromancer Games' quality and production instead of TLG's.


As a guess, if Necro had published this, it would have been $100 cover price with obviously better production values.  It does make you wonder how many copies could have been sold.  Also, if TLG was given more time or the right to republish, how many more copies do you think they could sell?

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:40 pm 
 

Quantity that sells is in my interest to stay low as I am an investor.

Runs contrary to the ethos of gaming though, as the majority of these end up with people who will either not use it due to rarity or not use it as they are just investors/resellers. Be willing to bet that of the hundreds sold, only 10-20% will be plaid with, and less that 40% will ever be read.

That's a damn shame, and one an official PDF would remedy.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:50 pm 
 

I think, amongst other things, the "low quality" was due to being rushed into production... had they not gotten it out in some form, it may have been impossible to get it out at all.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:24 pm 
 

. wrote:Quantity that sells is in my interest to stay low as I am an investor.

Runs contrary to the ethos of gaming though, as the majority of these end up with people who will either not use it due to rarity or not use it as they are just investors/resellers. Be willing to bet that of the hundreds sold, only 10-20% will be plaid with, and less that 40% will ever be read.

That's a damn shame, and one an official PDF would remedy.


Well, count me in the 10% list then.

I read EVERTHING I buy.
Unless its SWed, in which case I either already had one opened, or plan to soon.
Well,  almost never buy SWed items anyway so that does not matter much and seldom affects my choices.

I hope to play with everything (Gaming related) I buy too.

And I will either PLAY with my only copy of Upper Works or PDF the stuff and then play with the PDF copy.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:45 pm 
 

serleran wrote:.... had they not gotten it out in some form, it may have been impossible to get it out at all.

And we must all be grateful of that.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:50 pm 
 

I stumbled onto two copies.  I opened one, which I'll read, and hopefully use.  The other I'll hold and look to trade for something else juicy that I want.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:40 pm 
 

I finally got a copy of the UW (thank you Rakeesh sah Tarna) so I'm a bit late chiming in.  This is a great product.  Best I've seen in years.  I'm glad to have it.

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:05 pm 
 

Rather than start a new thread I just though I would hijack this one to point everyone to a very interesting article by Gygax that mentions the original Greyhawk Castle.  James over on his Grognardia blog points to this old European Wargaming zine called Europa:

http://www.whiningkentpigs.com/DW/oldzi ... opa6-8.pdf

Be patient as it is a little slow.

Anyways this is from April 75, and Gygax's article on running a campaign is found on pages 18-20.  Related to this thread is that he describes the original 13 levels of Castle Greyhawk as it existed at the time.    I was just wondering since I don't have Upper Works if anyone could comment on a comparison.  Is there anything mentioned by Gary in the article that bears any resemblance to Upper Works?  For example it is mentioned that lvl2 contained a "Nixie Pool" & "a Fountain of Snakes", so is there anything like that on lvl2 of Upper Works, or on any level for that matter.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:11 pm 
 

The problem with comparing Upper Works is that it's only the first (storeroom) level of the dungeon and the castle structures.  There are hints of things in the lower levels but there is no concrete evidence that all of the things from the original campaign would have been included.  

The Castle of the Mad Archmage project that was being done at Greyhawk Grognard might have those things in them (I've downloaded it in its current development but don't plan on reading through it until it's complete).


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:24 pm 
 

The info in the Europa article aligns with the materials I've read about the original Castle Greyhawk, although there are several new details in there that I hadn't read before (yay! :D ).  

The first level in Upper Works also matches the original level 1 map pretty well:  it's larger, but is pretty close in design to the original level 1 map, just made a bit less boring (Gary commented in some of his pieces that the original level 1 map wasn't a really good design, and I agree).  

So, based on that, I'm hopeful that the other level maps would have been at least clearly-based on the originals in some cases.  Pure speculation on my part, of course....

Ak'Ptui wrote:I was just wondering since I don't have Upper Works if anyone could comment on a comparison.  Is there anything mentioned by Gary in the article that bears any resemblance to Upper Works?  For example it is mentioned that lvl2 contained a "Nixie Pool" & "a Fountain of Snakes", so is there anything like that on lvl2 of Upper Works, or on any level for that matter.


The Upper Works only includes level 1 of the dungeons, Stephen.  Level 1 does include a room with a giant snake, but not the fountain of snakes, for example.  A few details were mentioned in Upper Works about deeper levels/side levels, but I'd have to go back to remember what they were (I probably mention them in my review, or at least I hope I did:  that'll be a lot easier to read than the box set over again ;) ).


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:56 am 
 

I am surprised there is so little trade in CZ and the accompanying products. Maybe it's ust what can be searched from the UK, but there seems to be little movement or resale in this campaign setting. Is it because everyone is sitting on what they've bought?

I've got CZ9 East Mark Gazetteer and CZ11 Moat Gate. ANyone know how much these are worth?


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