Upper Works review?
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 23 of 29123 ... 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 ... 272829
Author


Active Collector

Posts: 63
Joined: Dec 19, 2008
Last Visit: Dec 16, 2019

Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:10 pm 
 

This cannot apply to computer games distributed on CD or DVD


In 1980 a new section was amendend to the 1976 United States Copyright Act, section 117. This new section provided the basis for owners of computer programs to back up them up for their protection and use in certain specific circumstances. But this provision did not extended to any other media and books and printed matter were not then nor are they now covered by this provision. It has since gotten more difficult to legally back up privately purchased software as the 1998 amendments under the Digital Millennum Copyright Act made it illegal to defeat technological copy prevention built into software.

In 1992 an amendement was added to the Copyright Act allowing consumers to make personal back up copies of legally purchased music and media stored on CD, but it was explicitly stated that these backup copies were for personal use only and never under any circumstances to be given to others or distributed, even if given away for free. These provisions have since been updated and challenged so they have evolved, but at no time did this extend to other media that a consumer may purchase or own so books and printed mater would not fall under this either.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 6070
Joined: May 03, 2003
Last Visit: Mar 29, 2021
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:30 pm 
 

In Canada a fee for each writeable CD or DVD is given to the music industry.  In exchange, we are allowed to make backup copies of CD music for personal use without ever having to own the original.  Borrowing a CD from the library, making a copy, returning the original is perfectly legal.

I don't think this policy applies to games on CD though.

 WWW  


Active Collector

Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 22, 2009
Last Visit: Aug 17, 2009

Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:37 pm 
 

I have a few copies of CZ:UW and have considered making a pdf for myself as well. I bought one copy when it first became available for my family campaign, but grabbed some more as soon as I heard about GG yanking the license from TLG, knowing that the number of copies distributed couldn't possibly have been that many in just a few months (a few thousand I figured, never would have guessed it might be less than 500).

My first copy I sat down and read the first two days after it arrived, but I was careful with it as I am with all books. My other two copies I've done nothing more than check to make sure the contents were all there (none of my copies were shrink wrapped). All three have some box damage that apparently was a problem in the warehouse or whatever.

Anyways, as much as I'd like to run the adventure, I can't bring myself to open those boxes again and risk damaging them at the gaming table. I tucked them up on a shelf, and am waiting to see what happens in 5 years or so to the price (I'm guessing in 5 years they go for $500 for a mint or NM).

While I don't think CZ:UW is the best Gary ever wrote (the G-D series tops them all IMO), its still a good adventure. Making a pdf for my own use seems like the least of all evils if I ever want to actually play the damned thing without losing out on my investment potential.

If that makes me a pirate, then ARRR matey! :pirat:

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2737
Joined: May 31, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 22, 2021

Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:09 pm 
 

The number of copies is not less than 500.


Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

  


Active Collector

Posts: 63
Joined: Dec 19, 2008
Last Visit: Dec 16, 2019

Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:21 pm 
 

For being as rare as UW is I've come across and subsequently purchased 6 box sets brand new in the past 3-4 months. I found 3 for $10 on a discount rack at a game store booth at a convention, and 2 others for original price at a local game store. I've also picked up one on ebay for $29 as well. This is all since the New Year when it was pulled. For being so rare either I'm really, really lucky or there are more than we think floating around.

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 445
Joined: Dec 26, 2008
Last Visit: Apr 13, 2021
Location: Miami, Florida

Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:26 pm 
 

as far as what I have seen since the beginning of this year, it appears you are really, really lucky....

Jorge

  


Active Collector

Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 22, 2009
Last Visit: Aug 17, 2009

Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:27 pm 
 

jcp wrote:For being as rare as UW is I've come across and subsequently purchased 6 box sets brand new in the past 3-4 months. I found 3 for $10 on a discount rack at a game store booth at a convention, and 2 others for original price at a local game store. I've also picked up one on ebay for $29 as well. This is all since the New Year when it was pulled. For being so rare either I'm really, really lucky or there are more than we think floating around.


If they're not that rare, then why are you buying them up?  :lol:

  

User avatar

Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 584
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Last Visit: Apr 13, 2021
Location: Evergreen, CO

Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:43 pm 
 

carrejo wrote:as far as what I have seen since the beginning of this year, it appears you are really, really lucky....

Jorge


Agreed, the lowest price I have seen since March has been $135.  And 3 for $10 at a convention?  What convention was this?

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 6070
Joined: May 03, 2003
Last Visit: Mar 29, 2021
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:01 pm 
 

Grug Greyskin wrote:And 3 for $10 at a convention?  What convention was this?


No kidding, that retailer must be grouped among  the stupidest retailers around.  Regardless of the current Ebay price - discounting stock that is at best 6 months old to less than 25% of retail is ridiculous - considering the Castles & Crusades line is still going.  If it was a going out of business sale then it makes sense why.

 WWW  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2737
Joined: May 31, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 22, 2021

Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:19 pm 
 

Yeah, that seems like a ridiculously low amount, but considering I got mine for $0... I won't complain.


Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6236
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 14, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:25 am 
 

serleran wrote:The number of copies is not less than 500.

Care to put an approximate figure on it?
Greater than 600?


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4485
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Apr 14, 2021
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:52 am 
 

serleran, is it greater then 1, less then a million? Okay that and everyone else can stop asking :wink:

Is it less or more then the amount of cholesterol from that Bacon Explosion you made?

If that number was represented as hit points, what level character would it be?

:P  :lol: Keep it to yourself, don't fall into the traps of people spouting numbers.

ShaneG.


I reject your reality and substitute my own

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6236
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 14, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:50 am 
 

Well, it seems to be greater that 500 and less that 700.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

 WWW  


Active Collector

Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 22, 2009
Last Visit: Aug 17, 2009

Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:49 am 
 

When the news broke that GG had pulled the license from TLG, I figured there would have been a mad rush by both casual gamers and collectors to get as many copies as they could, considering the price was really low compared to the quality and quantity of material included in CZ:UW. I would have guessed at least a few thousand were snatched up before the deadline for TLG to pulp the rest came and went.

However, I'd think if there were thousands of copies they'd be more widely available (at whatever price). Not everyone is a reseller, and there are always people who aren't impressed with any given product and simply want to get their money back on it, or who don't know that the thing might actually be a bit valuable. But it seems pretty scare to me over the last few months, with comparatively few copies available for any price.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6236
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 14, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:24 am 
 

Grognard wrote:When the news broke that GG had pulled the license from TLG, I figured there would have been a mad rush by both casual gamers and collectors to get as many copies as they could, considering the price was really low compared to the quality and quantity of material included in CZ:UW. I would have guessed at least a few thousand were snatched up before the deadline for TLG to pulp the rest came and went.

However, I'd think if there were thousands of copies they'd be more widely available (at whatever price). Not everyone is a reseller, and there are always people who aren't impressed with any given product and simply want to get their money back on it, or who don't know that the thing might actually be a bit valuable. But it seems pretty scare to me over the last few months, with comparatively few copies available for any price.

Serl already indicated less that 700 in an earlier post.
Now he's indicated greater than 500. That's how we're narrowing it down.
That already makes it rarer that Rappan Athuk Reloaded for a remarkably recent publication. Your purchases, damaged as the boxes are, are probably worth over $100 each at the moments. Of those  reading this thread, we are probably accounting for maybe 70-80 copies stock piled in small quants (well, except for JZ). If the bulk of the balance went to GH fans and C&C fans as earlier adoptors, I doubt we'll ever see many of these on eBay in the future. A couple of dozen a year at the moment as people cash in on the early price hike. But they'll disappear quickly enough. I agree, we could see $500 a piece on mint copies within 5 years. Only a reprint will cap the price of this boxed set in the long term.

Are you Grognard of 'Castle of the Mad Archmage' blog?


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

 WWW  


Active Collector

Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 22, 2009
Last Visit: Aug 17, 2009

Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:36 am 
 

. wrote: Only a reprint will cap the price of this boxed set in the long term.


Not bloody likely to happen at this point. Even if there was another print by some miracle, how many would TLG or GG be willing to risk capital on? A thousand maybe? I think even in that case, CZ:UW will remain eminently collectible. I can't see it having a large print run even if someone was willing to go through all of the legal wrangling to make it happen.

As well, the copies that are out there now are still a "first print," and have the distinction of being the print "that was canceled" that might (or might not) add some value to it even if a reprint was done at some time.

On the one hand, that makes for a valuable collectible in my hands, but on the other hand its a shame that after 30ish years of waiting for at least something from Castle GH to come out, it won't ever be seen by many folks. Particularly given that the product is a pretty darn good one, warts and all. In fact, its the only thing TLG ever produced that I was actually impressed with.

Are you Grognard of 'Castle of the Mad Archmage' blog?


Nope. I'm just a generic member of the old guard.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6236
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 14, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:57 pm 
 

Imagine if CZ:UW was published with Necromancer Games' quality and production instead of TLG's.
As a collectable, TLG's poor manufacture and cheap printing make for a good price spread eventually between mint and non-mint copies.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 6070
Joined: May 03, 2003
Last Visit: Mar 29, 2021
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:20 pm 
 

. wrote:Imagine if CZ:UW was published with Necromancer Games' quality and production instead of TLG's.


As a guess, if Necro had published this, it would have been $100 cover price with obviously better production values.  It does make you wonder how many copies could have been sold.  Also, if TLG was given more time or the right to republish, how many more copies do you think they could sell?

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6236
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 14, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:40 pm 
 

Quantity that sells is in my interest to stay low as I am an investor.

Runs contrary to the ethos of gaming though, as the majority of these end up with people who will either not use it due to rarity or not use it as they are just investors/resellers. Be willing to bet that of the hundreds sold, only 10-20% will be plaid with, and less that 40% will ever be read.

That's a damn shame, and one an official PDF would remedy.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

 WWW  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2737
Joined: May 31, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 22, 2021

Post Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:50 pm 
 

I think, amongst other things, the "low quality" was due to being rushed into production... had they not gotten it out in some form, it may have been impossible to get it out at all.


Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

  
PreviousNext
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 23 of 29123 ... 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 ... 272829