About the only reasons I am not holding more than ONE copy of the CZ:UW Box Sets, are:
Too Fragile-  The Boxes are cheap Cheap CHEAPLY made! The one I have is already stating to creep steadily away from the ranks of newish looking stuff.
Too Much- The Box Sets are Too expensive now and that wont likely ever change.
Yes, I know that I should have ordered two sets while they were cheap  ( ... well at Retail Price anyway...)

That Said, If I do not find a PDF of The CZ:UW someplace (Soon), then I will make my own PDF Copy and I dont much care what others think of that plan.  

The Grandkids want to play some D&D and (eventually) they will wander the lands until they stumble across that (Seemingly) abandoned castle.
Saying something like this:
GK1: "Hmmm... I wonder whats in that place?"
GK2: "I dont know, Lets have a look!"

ashmire13 wrote:Unfortunately, I'll never own this as a set, but I'd certainly buy or 'find' a pdf  

That is something I would not wish to contribute to.

ashmire13 wrote:that's fair enough, nor would I expect it as your contributions on this thread are clear and honourable. If there were less pirated pdfs available, more people would buy the original or buy a licensed pdf.
That is my first option now, as I wont spend that much on an item that piques my interest.
However I have found some pdf items so good that I have then bought the original book or boxset!
I have never uploaded items for others use though, nor would I. Any pdf collection is my own personal collection

I must spend between $800 and $1000 a year on PDFs, predominantly through RPGNow, with the occasional visit to Lulu. I also spend a few hundred dollars a year on ebooks for my eReader. I heartily support electronic publication. Rarely will I buy a hardcopy, and the only hardcopies I do buy are those I consider highly proffitable as I am a reseller. I also buy harcopies of things not available in PDF and digitize them. And I try to promote the publication and rerelease of stuff in PDF form as and when I find publishers and authors willing to listen, often offering them the documents and my services for free, with a view to actually seeing product legitimately released.

The only time I would consider 'publish and be dammed' would be in the event that I had spend a lot of time trying to find the copyright holders and had come up blank. Not months, but years. Only if I considered it of particular benefit to the community at large to have access to the materials, hardcopies were beyond most peoples reach, and there was little chance of an electronic release impacting on the collectable nature or value of the original hardcopies.

Only one of those conditions can be said to exist with CZ:UW (that of price being outwith most people's reach), and none of them for Yggsburgh. As both the copyright holder, and the publisher are known and contactable, and the web of ownership is complexed, the only way a legitimate PDF could be released would be is Trigee license TLG to republish in PDF (or visa versa) and that isn't gonna happen.

We are left only with the moral issue of whether I should pass a backup PDF to someone I know has bought a legitimate hardcopy. And exploring that issue was the purpose of my post. Everyone's responses have given me food for thought.

jcp wrote:
It's not a moral issue. The law is very, very clear on this point. It is illegal to distribute digital copies that you made of items in your collection without permission from the copyright holder. It doesn't matter if you think or know if someone else supposedly owns the item in question or not.

The moral issue is whether or not one feels it is acceptable to exercise ones own set of values when the prescribed rules run contrary to what one believes to be fair and just. I do not disagree. I just regard it as law written to prevent large scale piracy (even individual piracy) and I believe that owning a copy of something you purchased for a lot of money and want to preserve and use, is fair and just. If the publisher and/or copyright holder cannot make that possible due to political conflict, I still think it fair and just that owners should be able to preserve and use their product, even if that conflicts with a law designed to combat piracy.

Certain institutes are given special rights when it comes to these things.  Libraries for example are able to make a complete copy of the item and store the original away.  Museums and Art Galleries probably have similar rights so the original is not lost or damaged.  Generally these places are more geared to storing and preserving the original.

This raises another question. If I make a digital copy of an item and then I sell the item, do I pass the copy to the new owner with the item, or do I destroy it?

Gnat the Beggar wrote:Along with the statement about Libraries and Museums/Gallaries that has been posted here on the forums before.

Apparently the copy must either be sent with the original, or destroyed.
In any case YOU cannot keep the copy since you no longer own the oiginal.

So I could sell CZ:UW Complete with Backup PDF on a CD? That may be challenged by TLG or TriGee.

jgbrowning wrote:To the best of my knowledge that would be completely legal. Both the original and the backup you made are your personal property and you can dispose of them as you wish.

I bet that would ramp the sale price up.  
But no way of controlling where the PDF went thereafter, and if Mars' reading of Clause 4a is correct, you may only reproduce portions of, and not the entirity of, something for your own personal use. Probably more prudent to destroy it.
That said, if it were sold legitimately along with its hardcopy, and it were then to go wild, it would not be something of my doing.

Mars wrote:This clause refers to scanning in parts of the book to be put up on a website or passed out amongst friends so it doesn't really apply to making a backup for personal use.

Cool. Could do an entire CZ DVD along with a set of hard copies.