Upper Works review?
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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:42 pm 
 

Mars wrote:You should go check and see if you can find one.  I think you would have to do a little bit of digging to find one (especially to get one at cover price).  Of the stores in Canada, most of the major stores (the ones that carried the Castles & Crusades line) are out of copies and so are the distributors.

Of the online resellers, NK and Troll&Toad don't have copies either.  There currently aren't any on Ebay and I can't find one in the completed auctions either.

Which version of Dark Chateau is rare?  I have seen more copies of the older, silver version than I have of the newer, golden version.  I have seen perhaps three or four of the silver and one or two of the golden.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:46 pm 
 

I just did a search in Google using just the words "kuntz dark chateau" and two places came up selling it -- one was Amazon.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:06 pm 
 

serleran wrote:I just did a search in Google using just the words "kuntz dark chateau" and two places came up selling it -- one was Amazon.


Good luck trying to get it from Amazon.  Notice that it says it will take 1 to 4 months to get in (after you order it) which means that they will need to get it from TLG so that's not going to happen.

A quick through your search and I can't seem to find the second place.  Most of the other places that search multiple businesses like eCampus and Bookfinder list it as Non-available.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:57 pm 
 

Hmm, you're right. It may be harder to get, now. It was very, very, very easy to get just last year, being on sale for quite a long time.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:40 am 
 

serleran wrote:It was very, very, very easy to get just last year, being on sale for quite a long time.


Yes, even at Christmas they were all part of the TLG Christmas sale and easily obtainable for a reduced price.  I wish I had taken advantage of that but instead have picked them up recently for around cover price.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:06 pm 
 

Update from Gygax Games:

Greetings Seekers,

I am reading your posts and working towards and end - my goal is to make sure Gary's intellectual property is safeguarded and protected. This takes time, more time than I anticipated - it's not that nothing is going on, I just can not disclose confidential information.

We all want to see Gary's work continue and rest assured, I am working towards that!

I appreciate your patience and understanding. We all miss him and want to keep his memory alive! I am dedicated to just that.


Gail Gygax


Original @ http://www.gygax-games.com/Forums/viewt ... 0&start=10


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:59 pm 
 

How many people feel that they would like to make a personal copy of CZ:UW for their own personal use? Would it be imoral or unethical for someone to engage another company to produce that copy for them?

It strikes me that a lot of people will not even read their boxed set because of its rarity and value, for fear of damaging it. What's more, there is an amiazing amount of fist class campaign materials within Yggsburgh and CZ:UW, and the absence of a digital source means that if you want to campaign in this setting, you need to copy everything out by hand. So having what little there was available pulled by Trigee, and not having CZ1 and CZ:UW released at all in PDF is a big handicap to gamers also.

I may be, at some point in the future, in a position to offer backup digital copies of CZ to those who really want to read, preserve or game with them. A freebie. I am sure there is nothing illegal in providing backup copies. I just wanted to take a quick sounding from collectors (as they tend to have the largest vested interest in such matters) on this.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:14 pm 
 

First off, I have little problems with using the only copy I have once the grandkids are ready to go there.

That is why I bought it when it was cheap and easy to find.
But If the offer for a backup is there, then I would be up for a copy too.
Easier to print off a playing map than to scan it myself... then print.
Same thing for the books.

A stated above, I DID buy it to use it, but I would not mind a bit; saving the orignal Box Set.... for inheritance purposes. :wink:


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:16 pm 
 

I have no interest in a digital version.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:43 pm 
 

I read mine, mind you that was all before the fiasco with the price jump, but would not have changed anything.  I'd possibly only want a digital copy to keep in the same folder I have the Castle of the Mad Archmage files in.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:15 pm 
 

. wrote:I may be, at some point in the future, in a position to offer backup digital copies of CZ to those who really want to read, preserve or game with them. A freebie. I am sure there is nothing illegal in providing backup copies.


How would you know that they are truly backup copies, that the person in question actually owns a printed copy?

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:40 pm 
 

Bacause they said they did, of course :wink:  (and would obviously destroy the digital version if they ever dispensed of the hard copy)


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:44 pm 
 

gyg wrote:Bacause they said they did, of course :wink:  (and would obviously destroy the digital version if they ever dispensed of the hard copy)

Strange how one can rely on that, isn't it?


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:50 pm 
 

faro wrote:Strange how one can rely on that, isn't it?


Quite right - I 100% trust everyone I deal with on the internet :D  8O


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:55 pm 
 

gyg wrote:Bacause they said they did, of course :wink:  (and would obviously destroy the digital version if they ever dispensed of the hard copy)


That's exactly my point. Are these intended to be backup copies (no wink needed) or "backup copies" (nudge, nudge)? :D

Personally, I wouldn't be all that keen about the wide distribution of pirated copies.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:31 am 
 

I am in the process of digitizing Yggsburgh and CZ:UW for my own safety and posterity. They are likely to be large files, but are really sweet high resolution scans with full OCR so I can copy and paste prtions out for gameplay.

I was actually thinking of burning to CD and offering only to Acaeum members as backups. I have a fair handle on who has copies here, and I know most of you's anyways, and if I wanted to check, then asking for copy of a PayPal invoice showing purchase would suffice.

Furthermore, burning the recipient's PayPal ID into the PDF as metadata, and/or as a watermark would deter redistribution online. We all value things we don't pay for less than things we do, so this would be my only concern. I wouldn't want to be the one who found that my file had gone wild, not least because I am still sitting on eight copies of UW and about a dozen CZ1.

My primary concern is wider distribution of pirate copies. Whilst I trust everyone here, and can control who I send files to, I have no control over who they trust and/or pass files to. Morally have have no problem providing a backup copy to someone I know is a long term collector and will still have their copy of CZ:UW in a decade (faro, say). But I have a problem with the sheer volume of pirate goods online and would not wish to be the person who put CZ up there. That is my dilema.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:02 pm 
 

. wrote:Furthermore, burning the recipient's PayPal ID into the PDF as metadata, and/or as a watermark would deter redistribution online.

My primary concern is wider distribution of pirate copies. Whilst I trust everyone here, and can control who I send files to, I have no control over who they trust and/or pass files to.


Great post!

picked out the 2 bits that I found most interesting - first is a great suggestion and second shows just how easily stuff profligates on the internet - a domino effect that means suddenly everone and his friend has one!

(btw - you trust EVERYONE here - really? 8O  :D )


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:33 pm 
 

. wrote:But I have a problem with the sheer volume of pirate goods online and would not wish to be the person who put CZ up there. That is my dilema.


It will probably happen eventually, whether you pass your copy around or not, as it is possible to find PDFs of virtually every RPG product ever made on torrent trackers or Usenet. The ideas you suggest are about the most that can be done to reduce the traffic.

The funny thing is, on this past Saturday I was considering scanning my reading copy for my own use. I still haven't decided if I have the gumption to scan the whole thing or not.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:27 am 
 

gyg wrote:(btw - you trust EVERYONE here - really? 8O  :D )

Everyone that I have got to know over the passed five years or so then. :D
Nice Hantlers wrote:It will probably happen eventually, whether you pass your copy around or not.

That doesn't necessarily mean I want to contribute to that, and furthermore, I take pride in the quality of my work, and I wouldn't want to see an increase in the general quality of pirate scans on the internet, because that only encourages it further. If people download poor quality pirate copies, they end up buying what they like for real. People have a tendancy to value what they've worked and paid for, but not what they got for free.



As a sounding board, Acaeum is good, mainly because most of the people who are regulars here have similar concerns and motives as my own. We all collect and want the best we can find for our collections, and we want to protect our investments and prevent the value of that investment from being corroded.

I may take a slightly more pragmatic view of preserving products for the future (by digitizing them), because I do not trust that the rare and uncommon items (particularly those outwith most peoples buying power or scope of interest) will not wholely disappear from the planet in time (clearly CZ:UW is not in this catagory, but much of what I scan may be). I believe it is encumbent on some of us to preserve these items for the future, and digital copies seems more preferable over microfieche, and is the only real alternative.

Example - I used to work in the music scene for my sins, and one of the bands was called Love Decree, an Edinburgh group who had a number one hit with a ditty that was all over Scottish adverts for Tennants Lager, and became the youth/football icon song for one particularly hot summer in Scotland. Looking back some 10 years later, when Soul Seeker was the peer network of choice, I went looking for Love Decree and their song, Something So Real, and it was nowhere. Indeed, there was absolutely no information online at all, and no-one stocking back catalog. Now I knew they'd put out a 7" and a 12" on general release, and a CD Single in very small numbers. It took about 6 months and I tracked down copies on vinyl, had a DJ friend convert them to mp3 and offered it up to fileshare. Lo-and-behold, I do a Google search now and the mp3 file is everywhere. It seems the song is well known and whether Love Decree were instrumental in doing this themselves, or whether people just downloaded my mp3 and then continued to share it, this song is preserved forever (or as forever as you can get).

Now I'm not advocating distribution of pirate PDFs, but more a case of promoting the distribution of backup copies to people who already own products. If I get burgled and my collection goes, or have a fire and everything goes, it would be good to be able to go back online and download everything I bought from RPGNow. They provide a safety net for much valued Abysthor and Rappan Athuk for example.

Someone buys a manuscript for a dungeon for many thousands of dollars. A unique item of great provenence. Should disaster befall that someone's collection, you would like to hope that he could go back to source and say 'I don't suppose you kept a digital copy of that item, did you? Can I have it?'

Personally, I get much more value for money out of buying PDFs than making them, and I buy them whenever I can. The time and effort I put in can only be justified as a hobby or passion. I try to encourage companies to release PDFs, but it is a long hard fight against wild geese and brick walls.


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:47 am 
 

. wrote:That doesn't necessarily mean I want to contribute to that, and furthermore, I take pride in the quality of my work, and I wouldn't want to see an increase in the general quality of pirate scans on the internet, because that only encourages it further. If people download poor quality pirate copies, they end up buying what they like for real. People have a tendancy to value what they've worked and paid for, but not what they got for free.



As a sounding board, Acaeum is good, mainly because most of the people who are regulars here have similar concerns and motives as my own. We all collect and want the best we can find for our collections, and we want to protect our investments and prevent the value of that investment from being corroded.

I may take a slightly more pragmatic view of preserving products for the future (by digitizing them), because I do not trust that the rare and uncommon items (particularly those outwith most peoples buying power or scope of interest) will not wholely disappear from the planet in time (clearly CZ:UW is not in this catagory, but much of what I scan may be). I believe it is encumbent on some of us to preserve these items for the future, and digital copies seems more preferable over microfieche, and is the only real alternative.

Example - I used to work in the music scene for my sins, and one of the bands was called Love Decree, an Edinburgh group who had a number one hit with a ditty that was all over Scottish adverts for Tennants Lager, and became the youth/football icon song for one particularly hot summer in Scotland. Looking back some 10 years later, when Soul Seeker was the peer network of choice, I went looking for Love Decree and their song, Something So Real, and it was nowhere. Indeed, there was absolutely no information online at all, and no-one stocking back catalog. Now I knew they'd put out a 7" and a 12" on general release, and a CD Single in very small numbers. It took about 6 months and I tracked down copies on vinyl, had a DJ friend convert them to mp3 and offered it up to fileshare. Lo-and-behold, I do a Google search now and the mp3 file is everywhere. It seems the song is well known and whether Love Decree were instrumental in doing this themselves, or whether people just downloaded my mp3 and then continued to share it, this song is preserved forever (or as forever as you can get).

Now I'm not advocating distribution of pirate PDFs, but more a case of promoting the distribution of backup copies to people who already own products. If I get burgled and my collection goes, or have a fire and everything goes, it would be good to be able to go back online and download everything I bought from RPGNow. They provide a safety net for much valued Abysthor and Rappan Athuk for example.

Someone buys a manuscript for a dungeon for many thousands of dollars. A unique item of great provenence. Should disaster befall that someone's collection, you would like to hope that he could go back to source and say 'I don't suppose you kept a digital copy of that item, did you? Can I have it?'

Personally, I get much more value for money out of buying PDFs than making them, and I buy them whenever I can. The time and effort I put in can only be justified as a hobby or passion. I try to encourage companies to release PDFs, but it is a long hard fight against wild geese and brick walls.


Interesting Ian mentions music as this is one area where digital recordings are really helping, in making previously unknown music available 30 years later. Everything recorded on vinyl does NOT make it to CD and many recordings have the chance of disappearing entirely from the public eye. Digital recording of vinyl to mp3s has immensely helped the collector in this regard.  I think in the long run pdfs are going to similarly preserve the RPG games we love so much, especialy for low print run or oddball items out there.

Plus I have yet to see a reasonable argument that devalues collecitibles by having them in pdf form, so it can only help to get them recorded and saved.  This is especially for those who are historians of the game yet cannot afford the quite unreasonable expenditure for buying the actual items. A comparison would be if a historian doing work on the founding fathers had to go out and find an original copy of the Federalist papers to do any sort of research, unreasonable and would lead to many people not taking up the mantle of research.  

Anyway I think there are many rpg items out there that could benefit from collected pdf versions (Arduin, Midkemia, The Companions, British mags like Beholder, Tortured Souls, etc) and hope to see them someday, but in lieu of that I think privately held pdf versions are good for preserving the knowledge.

Considering the limited print run and fragile state of the CZ boxed set, it makes sense to copy these for either use or for reading purposes. I would love to have a pdf so as not to further damage my own copy while flipping through it.

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