Upper Works review?
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Post Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:21 am 
 

Thanks guys. :)
I had downloaded his first installement and read through it immediately.
Since then I have had a lot going on and forgot all about it.


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:58 am 
 

The previous files aren't deleted, but the rapidshare links are no longer advertised.  If anyone actually wants them, let me know (or just search for the filename).  Other than tracking corrections, there is no particular point to having them.

The blue maps are the work of a separate volunteer.  Whether we'll see more and on what schedule isn't known.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:18 am 
 

TheHistorian wrote:The previous files aren't deleted, but the rapidshare links are no longer advertised.  If anyone actually wants them, let me know (or just search for the filename).  Other than tracking corrections, there is no particular point to having them.

The blue maps are the work of a separate volunteer.  Whether we'll see more and on what schedule isn't known.


And after I went through the trouble of finding these through Google searching.  Oh well, least I have them :oops:

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:29 am 
 

TheHistorian wrote:The previous files aren't deleted, but the rapidshare links are no longer advertised.  If anyone actually wants them, let me know (or just search for the filename).  Other than tracking corrections, there is no particular point to having them.

The blue maps are the work of a separate volunteer.  Whether we'll see more and on what schedule isn't known.


Thanks much historian.


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:46 am 
 

I wasn't aware of this little project ...thanks everyone for bringing it up here.  Those previous files are useful if you want the hand drawn version of the maps before they get converted into the blue ones on the next release.

I can sort of see this project going places if the author keeps it up and interest builds.  This is just the kind of quality work that starts under the radar and then keeps getting better and better because the author keeps following through with more material.  Get some of the current artists doing work for OSRIC, LL, and S&W to make a few illustrations, then make the pdf available as a POD on Lulu in either soft or hard back.  Anyone with some Greyhawk clout (grodog) want to see if the author will move down this road?  

Cheers!

  

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:59 pm 
 

islestrike wrote:I wasn't aware of this little project ...thanks everyone for bringing it up here.  Those previous files are useful if you want the hand drawn version of the maps before they get converted into the blue ones on the next release.

I can sort of see this project going places if the author keeps it up and interest builds.  This is just the kind of quality work that starts under the radar and then keeps getting better and better because the author keeps following through with more material.  Get some of the current artists doing work for OSRIC, LL, and S&W to make a few illustrations, then make the pdf available as a POD on Lulu in either soft or hard back.  Anyone with some Greyhawk clout (grodog) want to see if the author will move down this road?  

Cheers!

The problem is the minute you start to publish officially you need to align and obay one of the rules systems, and burden your publication with a full blown printing of the license. Too much bollocks and bullshit for my liking.

If you like that publication though, then maybe someone here will post a link to the DF Collaborative Mapping of the Underworld. The maps in it are all over the place. No consistency and questionable quality in places, but the team will no doubt band together and edit eachother's work and bring some sence of consistency and quality to the project. It certainly looks good thusfar.


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:02 pm 
 

I was a bit rushed earlier... should have just posted what I've found for everyone to grab.

First four versions:

http://rapidshare.com/files/189424238/WG13_0901.pdf
http://rapidshare.com/files/202052309/WG13_0902.pdf
http://rapidshare.com/files/214698702/WG13_0903.pdf
http://rapidshare.com/files/226907454/WG13_0904.pdf

Blue poster maps for levels 2 and 3:

http://greyhawkgrognard.blogspot.com/20 ... -maps.html


I think that's everything available for this project so far.  If anyone knows of other parts, I'd be interested to learn about it.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:39 pm 
 

TheHistorian wrote:I was a bit rushed earlier... should have just posted what I've found for everyone to grab.

First four versions:

http://rapidshare.com/files/189424238/WG13_0901.pdf
http://rapidshare.com/files/202052309/WG13_0902.pdf
http://rapidshare.com/files/214698702/WG13_0903.pdf
http://rapidshare.com/files/226907454/WG13_0904.pdf

Blue poster maps for levels 2 and 3:

http://greyhawkgrognard.blogspot.com/20 ... -maps.html


I think that's everything available for this project so far.  If anyone knows of other parts, I'd be interested to learn about it.


OH YES!
THATS what Im talking about!
Thank you!


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Post Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 4:41 pm 
 

There is already an update for the next level:

http://rapidshare.com/files/231546438/WG13_0905.pdf

And lots of cool new poster size maps (scroll down to post #34):

http://www.enworld.org/forum/art-galler ... etc-2.html


As always, you can track Joe's progress at http://greyhawkgrognard.blogspot.com/


I'm about to send him a big stack of errata (proofreading type corrections) - I think this project is cool enough to warrant spending some time making it as strong as possible!

  


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Post Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:46 pm 
 

Has this one been posted?



Upper Works with $199 BIN:




** expired eBay auction **




Now's your chance!


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Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:16 pm 
 

NKG have CZ:UW sets at $200 and $220 up.

There may come a time when people look back and think it was great that you could buy these at that price. Then again, this may be the peak and prices may level off lower. That's the gamble, and the odds are it's  in Trigee's hands whether the price levels out or continues to rise. If they reprint (or rumour a reprint of expansion) or if they release a PDF, them maybe we've seen the high price point. If CZ:UW days are gone, and it is no more, then these set may become very rare and expensive in the future.

By comparison, we know Necromancer published 1000 copies (+/- 50 or so) of Rappan Athuk Reloaded. It's price is kinda stable at about $180 in mint condition, and we're 5 years+ down the line from it's release. There is a PDF continually on discount online, and a range of supporting product of equal quality (although they're not specifically linked into any campaign). The product is larger in it's scome, and equal in quality, subject to discussion (meaning it's close enough that a discussion can be had either way. We're not talking Castle Whiterock here).

So here is a fair benchmark. A similarly presented product of a similar quality and a known printrun size, selling at 2.4x it's original retail price and reletively stable at that.

CZ:UW has the benefit of being authored, at least in part, by EGG (by all accounts back at the top of his game as far as 'old school D&D' authoring goes). It has a print run of possibly half that of RAR, no available PDF, and possible never to be republished. That accounts for the 5x retail price ceiling we've seen, but there is currently no proven supply or demand, so your long term guess is as good as mine.

I for one would love a PDF release, but then that's just to save me having to put in the work myself. As it is, I'd say $200 is well wotrth paying for CZ:UW. It is probably the finest piece of writing Ive seen in the last 10 years.


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Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:43 pm 
 

. wrote:we know Necromancer published 1000 copies (+/- 50 or so) of Rappan Athuk Reloaded.


Where does the (+/- 50 or so) come from?  White Wolf, their publisher at the time for that product, wasn't into printing up extras.

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Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 5:59 pm 
 

. wrote:NKG have CZ:UW sets at $200 and $220 up.

There may come a time when people look back and think it was great that you could buy these at that price. Then again, this may be the peak and prices may level off lower. That's the gamble, and the odds are it's  in Trigee's hands whether the price levels out or continues to rise. If they reprint (or rumour a reprint of expansion) or if they release a PDF, them maybe we've seen the high price point. If CZ:UW days are gone, and it is no more, then these set may become very rare and expensive in the future.

By comparison, we know Necromancer published 1000 copies (+/- 50 or so) of Rappan Athuk Reloaded. It's price is kinda stable at about $180 in mint condition, and we're 5 years+ down the line from it's release. There is a PDF continually on discount online, and a range of supporting product of equal quality (although they're not specifically linked into any campaign). The product is larger in it's scome, and equal in quality, subject to discussion (meaning it's close enough that a discussion can be had either way. We're not talking Castle Whiterock here).

So here is a fair benchmark. A similarly presented product of a similar quality and a known printrun size, selling at 2.4x it's original retail price and reletively stable at that.

CZ:UW has the benefit of being authored, at least in part, by EGG (by all accounts back at the top of his game as far as 'old school D&D' authoring goes). It has a print run of possibly half that of RAR, no available PDF, and possible never to be republished. That accounts for the 5x retail price ceiling we've seen, but there is currently no proven supply or demand, so your long term guess is as good as mine.

I for one would love a PDF release, but then that's just to save me having to put in the work myself. As it is, I'd say $200 is well wotrth paying for CZ:UW. It is probably the finest piece of writing Ive seen in the last 10 years.


Im actually surprised at the Upper Works prices. I would have thought a few to have sold at around the $100 level but it has consistently sold at around $130 and more recently at $200 ($199 I believe). Looking toward the future (at a five year distance now about 4 and 1/2 years) I think a going rate might be $250 to $300 which is what I am pricing mine at now.

  

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Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:00 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:Im actually surprised at the Upper Works prices. I would have thought a few to have sold at around the $100 level but it has consistently sold at around $130 and more recently at $200 ($199 I believe). Looking toward the future (at a five year distance now about 4 and 1/2 years) I think a going rate might be $250 to $300 which is what I am pricing mine at now.

CZ:UW still exists in the wild.  I recently found an unshrunk CZ:UW for cover price at a FLGS.

However, The books have worn spine corners and some ink transfer; that does not bode well for the long term.  The Acaeum member formerly known as Aneoth/briefly Richard/now Gnat is correct when he says that bagging the CZ:UW contents is a must.

Since bagging the contents of shrinkwrapped copies is impossible, I wonder how the contents will look in a few years . . .

  

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Post Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:04 pm 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:CZ:UW still exists in the wild.  I recently found an unshrunk CZ:UW for cover price at a FLGS.

However, The books have worn spine corners and some ink transfer; that does not bode well for the long term.  The Acaeum member formerly known as Aneoth/briefly Richard/now Gnat is correct when he says that bagging the CZ:UW contents is a must.

Since bagging the contents of shrinkwrapped copies is impossible, I wonder how the contents will look in a few years . . .


They will probably all turn to vinegar like old wine.

  

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Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:28 am 
 

Plaag wrote:Where does the (+/- 50 or so) come from?  White Wolf, their publisher at the time for that product, wasn't into printing up extras.

Various things. Minus, because you never know how much product is scrapped on account of damaged stock, straight off the press, during deliver, during storage and assembly, in the retail chain, etc. Retail chain pulps stock that is returned by retailers as 'damaged'. Plus, because there are always products produced before the production run, to see that the box is just so, the check that the box and books all fit, the check that the box wrapper aligns with the cardboard frame, etc. And because verious people always get their complimentary copies (authors, contributing artists, cartographer, office reference copies and printers keep samples of products they've printed for display and to show other clients). Production of any product is not an exact science, and there is always extra produced at every stage of the production process.

So we don't know exactly how many are actually out there, but we can guess at around 1000 +/- 5%.


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Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:14 am 
 

. wrote:Various things. Minus, because you never know how much product is scrapped on account of damaged stock, straight off the press, during deliver, during storage and assembly, in the retail chain, etc. Retail chain pulps stock that is returned by retailers as 'damaged'. Plus, because there are always products produced before the production run, to see that the box is just so, the check that the box and books all fit, the check that the box wrapper aligns with the cardboard frame, etc. And because verious people always get their complimentary copies (authors, contributing artists, cartographer, office reference copies and printers keep samples of products they've printed for display and to show other clients). Production of any product is not an exact science, and there is always extra produced at every stage of the production process.

So we don't know exactly how many are actually out there, but we can guess at around 1000 +/- 5%.


I'm good friends with one writer and even the owners Clark and Bill.  So I can tell you there isn't any + to that amount, minus I can go along with, but then every product will go -% unless its print on demand.  Since printing came from China (course it will again since Paizo goes through that country as well) there was no advance copies.  Sure they had things air mailed to make Gen Con while the rest was shipped by sea.  And companies get what is known as a "White Sample" A white sample is a totally blank book with the correct weight, paper stock, and cover stock of the final product.
Just wanted to inform you on this, not trying to make a big deal out of it.  Other companies do things differently, but what I know of Necromancer Games stuff that's the gist of it.

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Post Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:04 am 
 

Plaag wrote:I'm good friends with one writer and even the owners Clark and Bill.  So I can tell you there isn't any + to that amount, minus I can go along with, but then every product will go -% unless its print on demand.  Since printing came from China (course it will again since Paizo goes through that country as well) there was no advance copies.  Sure they had things air mailed to make Gen Con while the rest was shipped by sea.  And companies get what is known as a "White Sample" A white sample is a totally blank book with the correct weight, paper stock, and cover stock of the final product.
Just wanted to inform you on this, not trying to make a big deal out of it.  Other companies do things differently, but what I know of Necromancer Games stuff that's the gist of it.


Great info. Thanks.
'course it will again...'? Does that mean it's going to be reprintd? Why Paizo?
The white samples is something new to me. Sounds pretty cool. Wouldn't mind one of them.


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