Upper Works review?
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:07 am 
 

I'll need to check my copies when I get a chance.
Anyone care to ask the TLG Forum about the missing Mouths of Madness map and see what they're response is? I'm persona non grata over there on account of some bits of paper I own with maps on.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:33 pm 
 

I'm persona non grata over there on account of some bits of paper I own with maps on.


No you're not, though you may not be well liked by certain individuals for a certain accusatory attitude displayed, myself not necessarily being one of them, but you ignore what I say in this thread anyway, so feel free to continue your erroneous assumptions.

But, if it will make you feel better, the question has been asked.


[edit]

OK -- I got this as a response from someone who would know what maps were supposed to be included:

I believe there was a double sided area map, the upper castle floor plans, and the dungeon levels. And then a booklet full of maps and illustrations.


So, it would appear that "4 maps" is actually 3 -- one of them is double sided. Furthermore, I do know that there was a problem with the GenCon release, and it affected maps... but not in quantity. One was cropped, as I recall, so it needed to be reprinted.


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Last edited by copycat on Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:04 pm 
 

serleran wrote:
Try, no you're not, though you may not be well liked by certain individuals for a certain accusatory attitude displayed, myself not necessarily being one of them, but you ignore what I say in this thread anyway, so feel free to continue your erroneous assumptions.

But, if it will make you feel better, the question has been asked.

Wow! Sound like you're a bit pissed.

As I recall, I only posted on a Dragonsfoot and managed to get the timeline straight after a lot of clouded 'we don't want to talk about this' from those posting on Dragonsfoot. The assumptions of me trying to undermine anyone's credibility or the validity of the product were entirely theirs. I made it clear from the start that I owned maps and wanted to know the timeline that resulted in them being given to me before the product was complete.

I may have posted on TLG, but only to clarify my research and appologies if anyone had felt their egos had been challenged, as I was just researching and not trying to put down a perfectly good product put together by perfectly reputable individuals.

And I can't seem to find where I ignore what you say in this thread. I'be been back a half dozen pages, and don't see what you refer to, but I'm sure everyone here has a lot of respect for your position and reputation in the indistry. Me included. So if I've p'ssed you off somewhere, I appologise.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:12 pm 
 

No, I'm not pissed at you, individually -- I just used it as a means to vent in general. So many false rumors and allegations flying all over the place, and there's no way to stop them, except to ignore them (and then they get worse.) Sorry. It was not meant to be against you.

Should not have said what I did in that way -- but, you're welcome at the Troll boards. Damn near everyone is.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:23 pm 
 

Yay! You're cool with me. Don't like to think I piss people off on here. It's a good community.

As regards rumours, they fly around when it's hard to get accurate information. If the information that will quash rumours is made available quickly, rumours tend to die quickly. Unfortunately, the nature of a lot of 'business' is that it is not for public consumpion. That leads the rest of the world who believe they have an invested interest in things to speculate and postulate.

Bottom line is transparency kills rumours but is no good for business, and the nature of the collector that frequents this forum is that we are fairly anal and meticulous about exploring every detail of the very origins of each product. Such is the nature of the obsessive D&D collector.
Galadrin wrote:I believe there are 3 in the first run, 4 in the later boxes. The ones sold at GenCon have the two black and white (single-sided) Castle Zagyg area maps (one for above ground, one for below) and the double-sided Castle Zagyg environs map (featuring the Old Castle Track, with encounter numbers on one side for the DM). The later boxes featured these, and also a colour Castle Zagyg area map (just the below ground area, and none of the Store Room dungeon) which was included with the Mouths of Madness adventure found in the East Mark Gazetteer.

A posted response from the TLG forum.
The question this raises is, how does someone who bought a GenCon copy use the Mouths of Madness book if there's no map sheet? Or is the MoM mapsheet also duplicated on the BW storeroom mapsheet? I don't have access to a copy right now.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:59 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Yay! You're cool with me. Don't like to think I piss people off on here. It's a good community.

As regards rumours, they fly around when it's hard to get accurate information. If the information that will quash rumours is made available quickly, rumours tend to die quickly. Unfortunately, the nature of a lot of 'business' is that it is not for public consumpion. That leads the rest of the world who believe they have an invested interest in things to speculate and postulate.

Bottom line is transparency kills rumours but is no good for business, and the nature of the collector that frequents this forum is that we are fairly anal and meticulous about exploring every detail of the very origins of each product. Such is the nature of the obsessive D&D collector.

A posted response from the TLG forum.
The question this raises is, how does someone who bought a GenCon copy use the Mouths of Madness book if there's no map sheet? Or is the MoM mapsheet also duplicated on the BW storeroom mapsheet? I don't have access to a copy right now.


the seller in question posted a pic of one of his maps this morning.  no ebay access right now but that might answer some questions...

  

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:16 pm 
 

Indeed it does.
The content of the MoM 'brown' map appears on the storeroom level BW map, so the 'additional' MoM map is superfluous. And this would not be a good indicator of GenCon copies for the obvious reasons.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:28 pm 
 

Maybe tlg was trying to unload extra MoM color maps before having to pulp them in december so they added them to the later boxes.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:19 am 
 

The map included with the Gen Con copies was indeed cropped incorrectly (this does not impact its usability however).  Does this make it one of those "I see Jesus on my bagel!!!" items?

The color map included with the set is of the surrounding area but (to the best of my knowledge, I'll double check when I get home tonight) is only 1 sided.

Sorry to stir the debate up but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't making an error in stating that the boxed set was complete.

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:30 pm 
 

It is official (I just got off the phone with Steve Chenault) -- Troll Lord Games did not shrinkwrap any copies of Upper Works. Those which are, were done at the distributor / retail level.

I also found out how many copies of CZ:UW exist but have been asked to not divulge the figure, so I won't.


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:25 pm 
 

serleran wrote:
I also found out how many copies of CZ:UW exist but have been asked to not divulge the figure, so I won't.


have you indeed?!


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:28 pm 
 

Yes.


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:37 pm 
 

serleran wrote:Yes.

You, sir, are an evil man.   :D

  

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:55 pm 
 

You, sir, are an evil man.


Yes, yes I am. It's why I'm going to 'ell. :)


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:28 pm 
 

serleran wrote:
Yes, yes I am. It's why I'm going to 'ell. :)


What if you write the number really really small!

  


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:15 pm 
 

serleran wrote:
Yes, yes I am. It's why I'm going to 'ell. :)


You forgot the "t".  An evil man would be going to tell.  :D


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:35 pm 
 

Grug Greyskin wrote:From the reviews, I believe Grodog got his from GenCon (based on his posts in this thread, but maybe he can confirm that),


I have copies from August from GenCon, and copies direct from TLG in November/December with the fixed maps.


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:46 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Indeed it does.
The content of the MoM 'brown' map appears on the storeroom level BW map, so the 'additional' MoM map is superfluous. And this would not be a good indicator of GenCon copies for the obvious reasons.


and

SoulCatcher78 wrote:The map included with the Gen Con copies was indeed cropped incorrectly (this does not impact its usability however).  Does this make it one of those "I see Jesus on my bagel!!!" items?


I'll put together an A/B scan of the impacted versions of the MoM/SR map level, which will help to ID the original/bad crop maps from the mostly-fixed ones.

SoulCatcher78 wrote:The color map included with the set is of the surrounding area but (to the best of my knowledge, I'll double check when I get home tonight) is only 1 sided.

Sorry to stir the debate up but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't making an error in stating that the boxed set was complete.


My GenCon copy includes the color, duplex regional map, with DM and Player's versions on both sides.  If that has been split into two color maps in the later boxed sets, that's great.  

My later copies are in a box in the attic, so I'll have to dig around for them this weekend.  Ian:  why don't you email me to remind me, please? :D


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:29 am 
 

Will do, Allan. I'll try this weekend.
My copies all have four maps.


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:45 am 
 

The area map is double sided...not sure why I thought it wasn't but that's the old age creepin' up on me I suppose.  All is well in map land once again!

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