Upper Works review?
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Post Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:26 pm 
 

I listed an extra copy last night at 4:30 am to coincide with the ending of Ian's auction:




** expired eBay auction **




It sold within hours at $175.

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:59 am 
 

This copy was mentioned on the interesting item threads already, but I note the seller has changed the description.  He says it is missing a map, based on pictures from previous auctions which included a "brown" map.  Both the recent UK-based auction and Mars' copy do in fact have 4 maps, including a brown one.



However, I found 3 reviews online (grodog, Grognardia and ENWorld), all of which explicitly describe the set with only 3 maps.



So what's the deal here, does a complete set have 4 maps or 3?  Is this guy selling a complete set or is the poor bastard one map short?




** expired eBay auction **




Edited for grammar and spelling.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:31 am 
 

6 Books & 4 Maps

Double sided map entitled 'Castle Zagyg Wilderness Map', players' on one side, castle keeper's on the other.
Single sided 'brown' map detailing the Mouths of Madness cave complexes.
Single sided BW map detailing the storeroom level of the bungeon beneath the castle mound.
Single sided BW map detailing the castle presinct above ground.

Note that the first two colour maps are also available in the East Mark Gazetteer, so if you're missing one, then buy a copy of the EMG.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:17 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:6 Books & 4 Maps

Double sided map entitled 'Castle Zagyg Wilderness Map', players' on one side, castle keeper's on the other.
Single sided 'brown' map detailing the Mouths of Madness cave complexes.
Single sided BW map detailing the storeroom level of the bungeon beneath the castle mound.
Single sided BW map detailing the castle presinct above ground.

Note that the first two colour maps are also available in the East Mark Gazetteer, so if you're missing one, then buy a copy of the EMG.


The seller (and each of the reviews!) implies that the brown Mouth of Madness and Storeroom maps are on the same map...  It will be interesting to see how that poll turns out.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:22 am 
 

Grug Greyskin wrote:The seller (and each of the reviews!) implies that the brown Mouth of Madness and Storeroom maps are on the same map...  It will be interesting to see how that poll turns out.

That would mean printing a colour map on one side and a BW map on the other? How odd. But I guess it saves on paper.
I am wondering if the GenCon copies have the storeroom map printed on the reverse of the MoM map, in which case we have a means of identifying GenCon purchases. Would be interesting to compare a GenCon copy side by side with a retail copy and see if there are other subtle differences.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:45 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:That would mean printing a colour map on one side and a BW map on the other? How odd. But I guess it saves on paper.
I am wondering if the GenCon copies have the storeroom map printed on the reverse of the MoM map, in which case we have a means of identifying GenCon purchases. Would be interesting to compare a GenCon copy side by side with a retail copy and see if there are other subtle differences.


I have asked the seller a couple of questions about where he got it, and asked if he could post a better pic of the map in question.

From the reviews, I believe Grodog got his from GenCon (based on his posts in this thread, but maybe he can confirm that), the EnWorld review was posted in October, and another on RPG.net was posted in mid-September.  Those could be from GenCon or TLG, as they started shipping preorders in September.  From Grognardia, James got his direct from TLG.  So not sure if this will distinguish a GenCon copy necessarily.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:07 am 
 

I'll need to check my copies when I get a chance.
Anyone care to ask the TLG Forum about the missing Mouths of Madness map and see what they're response is? I'm persona non grata over there on account of some bits of paper I own with maps on.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:33 pm 
 

I'm persona non grata over there on account of some bits of paper I own with maps on.


No you're not, though you may not be well liked by certain individuals for a certain accusatory attitude displayed, myself not necessarily being one of them, but you ignore what I say in this thread anyway, so feel free to continue your erroneous assumptions.

But, if it will make you feel better, the question has been asked.


[edit]

OK -- I got this as a response from someone who would know what maps were supposed to be included:

I believe there was a double sided area map, the upper castle floor plans, and the dungeon levels. And then a booklet full of maps and illustrations.


So, it would appear that "4 maps" is actually 3 -- one of them is double sided. Furthermore, I do know that there was a problem with the GenCon release, and it affected maps... but not in quantity. One was cropped, as I recall, so it needed to be reprinted.


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Last edited by copycat on Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:04 pm 
 

serleran wrote:
Try, no you're not, though you may not be well liked by certain individuals for a certain accusatory attitude displayed, myself not necessarily being one of them, but you ignore what I say in this thread anyway, so feel free to continue your erroneous assumptions.

But, if it will make you feel better, the question has been asked.

Wow! Sound like you're a bit pissed.

As I recall, I only posted on a Dragonsfoot and managed to get the timeline straight after a lot of clouded 'we don't want to talk about this' from those posting on Dragonsfoot. The assumptions of me trying to undermine anyone's credibility or the validity of the product were entirely theirs. I made it clear from the start that I owned maps and wanted to know the timeline that resulted in them being given to me before the product was complete.

I may have posted on TLG, but only to clarify my research and appologies if anyone had felt their egos had been challenged, as I was just researching and not trying to put down a perfectly good product put together by perfectly reputable individuals.

And I can't seem to find where I ignore what you say in this thread. I'be been back a half dozen pages, and don't see what you refer to, but I'm sure everyone here has a lot of respect for your position and reputation in the indistry. Me included. So if I've p'ssed you off somewhere, I appologise.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:12 pm 
 

No, I'm not pissed at you, individually -- I just used it as a means to vent in general. So many false rumors and allegations flying all over the place, and there's no way to stop them, except to ignore them (and then they get worse.) Sorry. It was not meant to be against you.

Should not have said what I did in that way -- but, you're welcome at the Troll boards. Damn near everyone is.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:23 pm 
 

Yay! You're cool with me. Don't like to think I piss people off on here. It's a good community.

As regards rumours, they fly around when it's hard to get accurate information. If the information that will quash rumours is made available quickly, rumours tend to die quickly. Unfortunately, the nature of a lot of 'business' is that it is not for public consumpion. That leads the rest of the world who believe they have an invested interest in things to speculate and postulate.

Bottom line is transparency kills rumours but is no good for business, and the nature of the collector that frequents this forum is that we are fairly anal and meticulous about exploring every detail of the very origins of each product. Such is the nature of the obsessive D&D collector.
Galadrin wrote:I believe there are 3 in the first run, 4 in the later boxes. The ones sold at GenCon have the two black and white (single-sided) Castle Zagyg area maps (one for above ground, one for below) and the double-sided Castle Zagyg environs map (featuring the Old Castle Track, with encounter numbers on one side for the DM). The later boxes featured these, and also a colour Castle Zagyg area map (just the below ground area, and none of the Store Room dungeon) which was included with the Mouths of Madness adventure found in the East Mark Gazetteer.

A posted response from the TLG forum.
The question this raises is, how does someone who bought a GenCon copy use the Mouths of Madness book if there's no map sheet? Or is the MoM mapsheet also duplicated on the BW storeroom mapsheet? I don't have access to a copy right now.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:59 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Yay! You're cool with me. Don't like to think I piss people off on here. It's a good community.

As regards rumours, they fly around when it's hard to get accurate information. If the information that will quash rumours is made available quickly, rumours tend to die quickly. Unfortunately, the nature of a lot of 'business' is that it is not for public consumpion. That leads the rest of the world who believe they have an invested interest in things to speculate and postulate.

Bottom line is transparency kills rumours but is no good for business, and the nature of the collector that frequents this forum is that we are fairly anal and meticulous about exploring every detail of the very origins of each product. Such is the nature of the obsessive D&D collector.

A posted response from the TLG forum.
The question this raises is, how does someone who bought a GenCon copy use the Mouths of Madness book if there's no map sheet? Or is the MoM mapsheet also duplicated on the BW storeroom mapsheet? I don't have access to a copy right now.


the seller in question posted a pic of one of his maps this morning.  no ebay access right now but that might answer some questions...

  

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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:16 pm 
 

Indeed it does.
The content of the MoM 'brown' map appears on the storeroom level BW map, so the 'additional' MoM map is superfluous. And this would not be a good indicator of GenCon copies for the obvious reasons.


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Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:28 pm 
 

Maybe tlg was trying to unload extra MoM color maps before having to pulp them in december so they added them to the later boxes.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:19 am 
 

The map included with the Gen Con copies was indeed cropped incorrectly (this does not impact its usability however).  Does this make it one of those "I see Jesus on my bagel!!!" items?

The color map included with the set is of the surrounding area but (to the best of my knowledge, I'll double check when I get home tonight) is only 1 sided.

Sorry to stir the debate up but I wanted to make sure that I wasn't making an error in stating that the boxed set was complete.

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:30 pm 
 

It is official (I just got off the phone with Steve Chenault) -- Troll Lord Games did not shrinkwrap any copies of Upper Works. Those which are, were done at the distributor / retail level.

I also found out how many copies of CZ:UW exist but have been asked to not divulge the figure, so I won't.


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:25 pm 
 

serleran wrote:
I also found out how many copies of CZ:UW exist but have been asked to not divulge the figure, so I won't.


have you indeed?!


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:28 pm 
 

Yes.


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