Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay
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Post Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:16 pm 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:reply says aged. pretty bad if that ^^


Yes, very scary if that is aged damage - kept in a smoker?

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 pm 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:is bidding for same reason as high prices on nkg in order to increase resale value of his collection while is getting out. if want to win have to dance to his tune. might not be fair but nothing unusual :) :)
has not sold anything to nkg of course
if can drive prices high enough gets to keep spares for free i guess


Screw 'em then.  If that truly is his strategy he can have them all and then they won't be worth dick.  Seems to me it would just be easier to shill his own auctions.  Ebay makes it pretty easy to do that nowadays.  Oh but that would be wrong now wouldnt it?  :roll:


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Post Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:13 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
Screw 'em then.  If that truly is his strategy he can have them all and then they won't be worth dick.  Seems to me it would just be easier to shill his own auctions.  Ebay makes it pretty easy to do that nowadays.  Oh but that would be wrong now wouldnt it?  :roll:


Well, he's not shilling his auctions, but since he's not actually selling anything, the effect is the same....he's using ebay as a price gauge so he can know what to charge NKG (or know what NKG should charge if he is selling them on commission...same differene).  Probably will buy these, then turn around an put them in separate lots with sky-high reserves, get a handle on a price, and then sell them to NKG.  

My advice would be for anyone here to simply NOT bid on his stuff....you have no chance of winning (he's not really selling them anyway, only seeing what the interest is), and you are only helping him raise his asking price with NKG.   In the current economy, I don't have a clue who NKG expects to sell those to, anyway, not even considering you can get them cheaper at any other venue (Gencon, Ebay, private sale).  NKG's prices are double what they sold for at Gencon....so, concievably, you could pay your ENTIRE trip to gencon, AND buy a Ghost Tower or POTVQ, for the price NKG is charging.  Personally, I'd rather have the trip to Gencon..... :wink:

Honestly, is there ANYONE out there now but the usual suspects paying dick for these at this point?????  What's that say about the hobby when the same five people are at this point selling rares to each other like some retard's circle jerk???? :roll:

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:33 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Well, he's not shilling his auctions, but since he's not actually selling anything, the effect is the same....he's using ebay as a price gauge so he can know what to charge NKG (or know what NKG should charge if he is selling them on commission...same differene).  Probably will buy these, then turn around an put them in separate lots with sky-high reserves, get a handle on a price, and then sell them to NKG.

nkg only selling on commission. suspect does not matter to tfm if no sale on nkg if visible high price there means his spare copy or copies of same items can be sold on ebay or private for more because of that. costs him nothing + much to gain possibly. well worked out if so

Badmike wrote:My advice would be for anyone here to simply NOT bid on his stuff....you have no chance of winning (he's not really selling them anyway, only seeing what the interest is), and you are only helping him raise his asking price with NKG.

aaron still fine in general in my book but did not know multiple copies + is not researching actual sale prices. had no idea $2000-2500 was rate for good 1st woodgrain not $4000+

Badmike wrote:so, concievably, you could pay your ENTIRE trip to gencon, AND buy a Ghost Tower or POTVQ, for the price NKG is charging.  Personally, I'd rather have the trip to Gencon..... :wink:

:) :)
just needs right people to turn up with goods!!

Badmike wrote:Honestly, is there ANYONE out there now but the usual suspects paying dick for these at this point?????  What's that say about the hobby when the same five people are at this point selling rares to each other like some retard's circle jerk???? :roll:

guess that is another way to keep inflating prices + make seem is investors dream :lol: :lol:

  

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Post Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:58 pm 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:guess that is another way to keep inflating prices + make seem is investors dream :lol: :lol:


Thanks for your points Rakeesh....I'm just in a piss poor mood tonight I guess.  Obviously TFM or NKG can charge whatever they want for rares...and obviously they do.....and whether they sell or not is their problem not mine!!!   It is a win-win for both I guess, if they don't sell they get exposure, if they do sell both get the cash.  But I will make the point again, if you want those rare items (Wee Warriors, Woodgrains, Tournaments, etc) AND have fun doing so at the same time, head out to Gencon.  Prices are cheaper than either online stores or auctions sites like Ebay, and you can have a heckuva lot of fun besides!

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:37 am 
 

I just find it f**king hysterical how Kynan is always pissing an moaning about the state of the hobby and how it has some great divide in it and hwo he is sick and tired of the same people buying everything. Yet right now, he keeps running these auctions with ridiculous reserves, he is doing his best to bid things up and jack up the prices.  Yeah, thats really how to promote the hobby.  :lol:  

Combine all that with the fact that he was the one who got mad and took his ball home for being correctly called out for lying in his auction description only to vehimently deny it several times on here.  Only then a couple years later to come out over on ToT that he actually did lie both in the auction and on here and the did in fact Frankenstein that ST1.

Then of course there was this little rant a few months ago:

http://tomeoftreasures.com/forum/viewto ... obby#15905

TFM wrote:Besides the scope and content, site administration is perhaps the biggest difference. Site administration at the Acaeum is near-impotent, and that fact alone has caused a tremendous amount of bad feelings throughout the rpg collecting community. There have been death threats over there. The last time I saw the forums a few years ago the 'hate Whitfield thread' was almost up to 100 pages. Imagine that! A 100 pages of hate! How in the world does that advance the community? All of that energy that could have been used to create something is wasted instead. Almost every collector has been a target of unrestrained scorn at some point. The forums have degenerated into a stage with the actors jockeying for time. On top of that there's a private forum where the anointed dish on the rest, reminiscent of the Coliseum. It's really too bad, especially since the best moment in our community occurred there. When DSIII was dying, everyone came together. It looked like the beginning of something special. It wasn't.

If you need D&D print info, it's still the place to go for the time being, and the work Shane has done with Judges Guild is simply the best. Our forums are not free-for-alls, and anyone who goes down that road will be banned. Amazingly, there is energy and goodwill still left in the community, enough to really do something. That's why I'm here. It's important for new collectors to have a place to go where they can ask questions in a productive environment. Our hobby is in danger of dying. When the people collecting now give it up in ten years, who will carry the torch forward? We have to inspire new people into the hobby or there will be no hobby. The Tome is structured to meet that challenge. We have to try.


Which apprently he failed to realize that he was doing the exact same thing on HIS forum that he was bitching about that goes on here.   :wink:

At least he isn't like a huge hypocrite or anything.  :lol:  :lol:


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:05 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:I just find it f**king hysterical how Kynan is always pissing an moaning about the state of the hobby and how it has some great divide in it and hwo he is sick and tired of the same people buying everything. Yet right now, he keeps running these auctions with ridiculous reserves, he is doing his best to bid things up and jack up the prices.  Yeah, thats really how to promote the hobby.  :lol:  

Combine all that with the fact that he was the one who got mad and took his ball home for being correctly called out for lying in his auction description only to vehimently deny it several times on here.  Only then a couple years later to come out over on ToT that he actually did lie both in the auction and on here and the did in fact Frankenstein that ST1.

Then of course there was this little rant a few months ago:

http://tomeoftreasures.com/forum/viewto ... obby#15905



Which apprently he failed to realize that he was doing the exact same thing on HIS forum that he was bitching about that goes on here.   :wink:

At least he isn't like a huge hypocrite or anything.  :lol:  :lol:


Boy BC you really just wanted to get me fired up, eh??? :D

First, 100 pages about Cougie is what I would call "A good start"; besides, everyone knows, even the Cougtard, that it's all for a good cause....hate?  I wouldn't waste my time hating Coug.  Pity perhaps.

Second, while a great resource, going to TOT is about as exciting as watching paint dry.  I can only stomach a trip once a month or so, as that's about how often the threads update with posts.  It's not exactly a dynamic community, unless you're one of the 10 people in the world with the means to update the info (due to the extensiveness of your collection and knowledge....this isn't a rip, seriously, even I'm intimidated going there because I don't have the chops to add anything).   In contrast, although it's slowed down lately, the Acaeum is generally a friendly place and a great source of info.

Third, I enjoy being treated like an adult, and for the most part, everyone here acts the part.  Much better than arbitrary rulings from "the gods" about what is and isn't allowed on the forum. aka Dragonsfoot, although I will say with that many people it's hard to keep a lid on.  

I've met people who I consider actual friends here on the Acaeum, got to meet them at Gencon, and luckily have gotten to game with many of them online, at conventions, and face to face.  For all it's plusses, and ToT has many, that is simply NOT a function of that forum, nor will it ever be. ToT will never be the venue Acaeum is...what they do they do well, but it will always pale behind the efforts here at The Acaeum, simply because it lacks the human contact and interaction provided.  It will be a cold day in hell when 3-4 of the ToT contributers get together for a cup of coffee, a pick up game of D&D, or a social event such as a wedding.  Give me the unstructured Acaeum anyday.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:19 am 
 

You pretty much summed it up for me Mike.  Break down D&D every way possible and it's still all about one thing....having fun.  People like "Whitfield" take the fun out of the collecting aspect.  So I am proud to say that his antics have taken up over 100 pages on this forum.  Bashing the Coug may not be the most constructive thing to do but it's definitely fun.  Death threats?  Hasn't it been over four years since that happened?  Hell, that was long enough ago that I forgot who it was that did it.  Private forum?  Must have missed out on that.  Why wasn't I anointed?  I have over 2000 posts of degenerate, unrestrained scorn damnit!



For the most part I think the forum here is pretty productive.  There is even some goodwill left here apparently.  We share knowledge with each other, we attempt to get to know things about each other that have nothing to do with the hobby, we point people to other sites when were not sure of the answers, and above all we try to have fun.  Isn't that what "community" is all about?



Oh and just so this thread doesnt go completely off track....here is an interesting item:


** expired eBay auction **




Maybe I should bid it up just to protect my investment....which was a whopping $8.  :roll:


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:53 pm 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:aaron still fine in general in my book but did not know multiple copies + is not researching actual sale prices. had no idea $2000-2500 was rate for good 1st woodgrain not $4000+


Even with knowing the going rate for these, I'm not sure that Aaron would set a price much lower.  A lot of his prices seem seem to have moved into the higher range (much higher than they would sell for on Ebay).

It seems like even a number of the small press items has started to get priced into the way high range.  Here is a good example:

Expoiting Space by Gryphonn Graphics (1980)

This price (IMHO) is completely insane.  Not so long ago I had 2 copies of this and I gave one away for FREE.  Sure its rare and small press but its appeal is to a very limited group.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:22 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
Even with knowing the going rate for these, I'm not sure that Aaron would set a price much lower.  A lot of his prices seem seem to have moved into the higher range (much higher than they would sell for on Ebay).

It seems like even a number of the small press items has started to get priced into the way high range.  Here is a good example:

Expoiting Space by Gryphonn Graphics (1980)

This price (IMHO) is completely insane.  Not so long ago I had 2 copies of this and I gave one away for FREE.  Sure its rare and small press but its appeal is to a very limited group.


There is a huge difference between "rare", "collectible",  and "valuable", and sometimes dealers/resellers (myself included) get these mixed up. Not everything rare is collectible, and certainly not valuable. Sometimes there is a reason it's rare...it sucked, and no one wanted it.  The more niche such an item is, the more likely even after 30+ years it shouldn't be worth more than double cover price.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:32 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:There is a huge difference between "rare", "collectible",  and "valuable", and sometimes dealers/resellers (myself included) get these mixed up.




For sure.  I am with you on all of these.  The small press market is similar to the high priced rares market - when a couple of the usuals don't bid or miss the auction, it goes much cheaper.  A small press item can have a huge swing in price year to year.



Another good example: Dave Casciano's Book of Dragons (1977) is a rarer small press item that probably hit a peak around $100 or so (probably the copy I bought from Bclarkie a while back).  This year I have seen two copies that ended in the $25-$30 range.  Here's the latest one:




** expired eBay auction **




This book seems like it should have everything going for it: fantasy genre, rare (small press, I have only seen 4 or 5 copies), etc.



On another note, quality of the item often doesn't play much of a role either.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:34 pm 
 

Sorry, I have not been paying attention to eBay -- get the small press stuff before I come back. ;)


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:54 pm 
 

Mars wrote:For sure.  I am with you on all of these.  The small press market is similar to the high priced rares market - when a couple of the usuals don't bid or miss the auction, it goes much cheaper.  A small press item can have a huge swing in price year to year.

Another good example: Dave Casciano's Book of Dragons (1977) is a rarer small press item that probably hit a peak around $100 or so (probably the copy I bought from Bclarkie a while back).  This year I have seen two copies that ended in the $25-$30 range.  Here's the latest one:


** expired eBay auction **

none at $25-30 unless missed one?? three copies one did not sell as was tfm + had $100+ reserve other was with  
** expired eBay auction **
dradons ^^

Mars wrote:This book seems like it should have everything going for it: fantasy genre, rare (small press, I have only seen 4 or 5 copies), etc.

yes. none in good condition but very very rare. what was missing was advertising + not to complain there as meant people might have got who did not just have most $$. could read little from final price + does not mean 'worth' either $25 or $100 imo. too much obsession is spent on $$

Mars wrote:On another note, quality of the item often doesn't play much of a role either.


lol true ;) ;)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:06 pm 
 


** expired eBay auction **




I'd like this, but at that price.......... :?


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:02 pm 
 

I do want to make a few comments on the ToT and TFM bashing too.

Badmike wrote:Second, while a great resource, going to TOT is about as exciting as watching paint dry.  I can only stomach a trip once a month or so, as that's about how often the threads update with posts.  It's not exactly a dynamic community, unless you're one of the 10 people in the world with the means to update the info (due to the extensiveness of your collection and knowledge....this isn't a rip, seriously, even I'm intimidated going there because I don't have the chops to add anything).   In contrast, although it's slowed down lately, the Acaeum is generally a friendly place and a great source of info.


I think this is a bit harsh.  Couple points to make here.  When I joined the Acaeum I felt the exact same way - out of my element.  A number of others felt the same way (or felt snubbed by the powers that be here as well) and they didn't stick around.  As far as contributing, entering Dungeon magazines or DCC or some of the things that you've added to the Acaeum Wiki would have been very welcome.  But to each his own, if you choose not to add info on ToT but to the Acaeum Wiki that is your choice.

bclarkie wrote:Combine all that with the fact that he was the one who got mad and took his ball home for being correctly called out for lying in his auction description only to vehimently deny it several times on here.  Only then a couple years later to come out over on ToT that he actually did lie both in the auction and on here and the did in fact Frankenstein that ST1.


Just as an aside, what happened with that ST1?  Wasn't it donated to the charity auction for Jeff Perren?

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:09 pm 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:none at $25-30 unless missed one?? three copies one did not sell as was tfm + had $100+ reserve other was with  
** expired eBay auction **
dradons ^^


That was the other one I was thinking of - I thought it sold cheaper.  Still not a bad buy when coupled with Book of Sorcery.

too much obsession is spent on $$




I agree completely on this.  In this hobby, I think both high price rares and small press items are very niche areas with very volatile prices and it is near impossible to predict the sale price of the next copy.

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:46 pm 
 

Mars wrote:Just as an aside, what happened with that ST1?  Wasn't it donated to the charity auction for Jeff Perren?


Honestly, which one?  There was at least 2 of them, as the one for sale back then was in fact Frankenstein'd.  IIRC, there was an ST1 in Paul's auctions for Jeff Perrin, but whether or not that came from Kynan or not I haven't a clue. Only he and Paul would really know that for sure.  

Truthfully though, that's not really the point is it? David correctly asked him during the original auction he was running if the ST1 was piecemeal and he denied it quite vehemently at the time. Only when David posted visual evidence, in the form of High Res pictures to support his queries, did Kynan then get all huffy and decided to leave here and take his ball home.  Finally, later, after the dust had all settled, did he finally admit over on ToT  that the ST1 was Frankenstein'd and that he did in fact did lie about it to everyone on the Acaeum. He tried to say he didn't think it wasn't a big deal, which honestly  if he really didn't think it was a big deal at the time, then why did he in fact lie about in the first place and continue to do so even after he was rightfully pressed on it by David?

On top of that, the whole "secret forum" is a bunch of crap too.  There is a private forum on here all right, its the VB board of which he was a part of himself for awhile.  The only discussions that I have ever seen go on there about other members of the forum were when the Scott indicated that the VB was getting ready to open up for new nominations for members of who people thought would be good members and that's really it.  The rest of the discussion that goes on there is about VB procedures and questions that related to the VB.  The VB is not some nefarious hidden secret board that we use to secretly bash members here.  He is lying, again.  

Combine all of that with the fact that ToT was in fact an entire secret forum for 3+ years that was used by only a few people(of which he was one of them for at least a year before going "public") upon private invitation only makes it even more hypocritical on his part. To make matters even worse, when ToT finally became "public", rather then trying to all inclusive and invite everyone, a series of secret invitations went out to a few other select members of this baord and that was it.  Talk about alienating a giant portion of what your hoped core audience was going to be when they finally went "public".

The whole idea for ToT came from some dispute between Scott and Mike Kuo whose idea ToT was after Kuo felt left out by Scott for whatever reason.  To me the whole ToT was just an example of someone who used to post here, who rather than try to fix what they thought was wrong, got mad and took their toys home all because something happened they didn't like.  He created ToT in a baltant attempt to divide the community and to secretly subvert Scott and the Acaeum. If there really is anything to this "divide", it was ToT forum that caused it, not the other way around.  Kynan can keep nailing himself to the cross over and over on ToT all he wants, but he isn't entitled to rewrite history, I won't let him.

To be clear, I really have no issues with the people over on ToT, as a matter of fact I hold you, Shane, Adam, Paul, Ralf, Mike, Allan, Jeff and pretty much the rest of the folks I see who post over there in very high regard, personally.  I do not however, share that opinion of Kynan.  Do I think he is a thief or a crook or someone who should be avoided at all costs by people?  No, not at all.  I am just sick of seeing his holier than thou rants over there about how "divided" the hobby is, when in fact he is one of the people most responsible for that supposed divide that he continues to bitch about. No one here told Kynan to leave here, even after the ST1 debacle, he chose to do it himself. The fact that he continues to preach from his ivory tower over on ToT about this supposed division that exists, how he is sick of the "same old faces" and how he cares so deeply about the hobby and wants to help grow it, then he is now going out of his way to try and manipulate the market to his own benefit is completely and utterly hypocritical at the very least and IMO people should know about it.


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Last edited by bclarkie on Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  

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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:54 pm 
 

Mars wrote:I do want to make a few comments on the ToT and TFM bashing too.

not as much bashing or arrogance as posting on ebay to declare incompetent when actually telling truth + having double standards on lying or to declare as delusion or heresay on tot when actually correct + not even correcting self or apologise apart from sheepish note on totally separate thread + condemn whole of acaeum as being a stage in process + admit deliberate winding up of other people to make angry
tfm created rod for own back + damaged community in general in process imo but entirely his call and just stating facts + impression hopefully is not bashing. would have been happier if turned out better but cannot force that to happen

hmm thread needs more genuine :) :) sorry

  


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:16 pm 
 

And just for reference here isTFM admission he lied about the ST1 from last year:

http://tomeoftreasures.com/forum/viewto ... =st1#12511

TFM wrote:There have been unintended controversies. My badge of honor is the ST1 I had listed awhile back. I have several of those with a couple of them being opposites of each other, one with nice cover and less than nice booklet and one with a nice booklet and not so nice cover. I put the less than with the less than and the nice with the nice. I had wanted to make a gift of the less than. There was somebody I knew who wanted one real bad but could never afford it. I was going to gift them the copy with the condition issues.

Well, you know how that turned out. It never occurred to me that trading components of the same item printed at the same time by the same people at the same location would be an issue. Selling game parts for the purpose of completing games with missing parts has been an industry standard for years. All of the game stores keep parts. I understand there's even a thread at that other site devoted to it. But the presumptions in the community always lean towards the nefarious. Anyway, I don't mind being the bad guy. It just makes me spend more money


Which of course is a complete and utter contradiction of his denials here:

viewtopic.php?t=3731&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


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Post Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:48 pm 
 

I bet neither David nor Brian EVER forget anyones birthday - both youu guys seem to have memories that would make an elephant blink :D !

Seriously though - odd thread - TFM seems to have serious issues with the Acaeum. In my opinion (and only based on reading both forums, and not being a party to PM's and other cross member/forum chatter) TFM only has himself to blame. He was called (rightly) and didn't like it one bit. At that moment I'm afraid levels of respect MUST drop considerably. That would not necesarily have been the case if he had immediately have put his hands up. (The fact that ST1 was 1 printing blah blah blah is irrelevant - the lie was the issue here).

I genuinely believe that TFM could have come back here and regained some respect - again, this was his decision, though it is a shame that a serious collector is 'lost' to this forum.

FWIW, while TFM undoubtedly has one the high end $ collections in the world, I have far more respect for both David and Brian. Their input into these forums far exceeds most anyone else here, and such input does not necesarily require having the most vast of collections (Though I'm pretty sure David has more than a magazine box of odds and ends, and Brian has certainly had some decent kit over the years!)

Sometimes having the big bucks does not make you the best person (Gentleman, as an example I give you professional sportsmen!! :D )


Rambling post - sorry, but kudos to David and BC generally.


You can never have too much of something you didn't need in the first place.

  
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