Chaosium and Mayfair Games product lists?
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:10 pm 
 

:) G026,  I meant Hermit.  I told you Chaosium is working my last nerve.

dbart, the listing at rpg made me check ToT which lead me to get the ddts and come here.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:13 pm 
 

Wait; what? I'm not bidding on anything ...  :)

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:47 pm 
 

PaulKM wrote:The map appears to be quite brownish. Mark is this like your map?


I think the photo in that auction is a little bit messed up on the cover.   My book isn't quite so read and the map there has strange colour.  My map is more of a mix between tan and chocolate milk brown :)

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:14 am 
 

Hmmmmmmmmm..your map is a chocolate milk and tan mix, whereas mine is definitely more like the book cover: a blushing-virgin reddish-pink.  

Now we have a second question:  how many 1981 map colour variations are there?  


Oh, I almost forgot:  :)

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:20 am 
 

Just so I'm clear on the colour of things, I took a scan of the book and map for comparison.  I think red (like a cherry) is the best colour to describe the book and tan brown the map.

Image

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:36 pm 
 

Mars, thanks for the scans.  I'll try and reciprocate as soon as I can.

Our cherry-red books are the same, but our maps are not.  

The border and text of my map match the darker red, such as Elric's arms, on the cover exactly.  The map details are a lighter red (the "S" in Stormbringer is a good example), and the sea looks almost flesh-pink.

Did you hear from ToT?  

We definitely have a map investigation to parallel the book questions.

As you wrote:  I wonder how many 1981 printing variations Chaosium produced?

Hmmmmmmmmmm.


Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day, and for once I'm inclined to believe...we are indeed drifting into the arena of the unwell.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:02 am 
 

Right, so if I have my Stormbringer/Eternal Champion/Elric! product list correctly:

1st edition:
Stormbringer box (deep box. single rule book. unknown # of printings)
Stormbringer Companion

2nd edition:
Stormbringer 2nd box (shallow box. multiple books.)
Demon Magic (2nd Companion)
Stealer of Souls
Black Sword
The Octagon of Chaos (Theatre of the Mind Enterprises)

2nd edition also sees the Eternal Champion product line:
Hawkmoon box
The Shattered Isle (aka Hawkmoon Companion)
White Wolf

3rd edition:
Stormbringer 3rd rulebook (hardcover. printed by GW. makes UA look well-bound from all accounts)

4th edition:
Stormbringer 4th rulebook (softcover)
Sea Kings of the Purple Towns
Sorcerers of Pan Tang
Perils of the Young Kingdoms
Rogue Mistress

Elric!:
Elric! rulebook (softcover)
Elric! Gamemaster's Kit
Atlas of the Young Kingdoms, Vol. 1: The Northern Continent
Melniboné
The Unknown East
The Bronze Grimoire
Sailing on the Seas of Fate
Fate of Fools

Stormbringer 5th edition (aka Elric! revised/reformated)
Stormbringer 5th rulebook (softcover)
Gods of Chaos (monograph)
Gods of Law (monograph)
Hawkmoon 2nd edition (monograph)
Old Hrolmar (monograph)
Corum (Darcsyde Productions)

Anything I'm missing?


"Reader, Carthegena was of the mind, that unto thoſe Three Things, which the Ancients held Impoſſible, there ſhould be added this Fourth ; To find a Book Printed without Errata's."

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:28 pm 
 

It seems looks complete, unless you want post-1996 material.

Then you could add:

Chaosium, 2001, d20 system: The Dragon Lords of Melnibone

(Elric!)/Stormbringer fifth edition items:

Chaosium, 2006: Hawkmoon: Adventures in the Tragic Milennium

Mongoose Publishing has some very new products for Hawkmoon (2007):

Hawkmoon Rulebook
Castle Brass
Granbretan  
Secrets of Tragic Europe

There is probably more..isn't there always?

Great list!  Thanks g026r.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:37 pm 
 

PaulKM wrote:Chaosium, 2001, d20 system: The Dragon Lords of Melnibone


There's also Slaves of Fate, the sole supplement for Dragon Lords.  (Amusingly enough: it was originally supposed to have a sequel, Straits of Chaos, that was never published.  The cover that was to be used for it ended up on the 2002 BRP booklet instead.)

Chaosium, 2006: Hawkmoon: Adventures in the Tragic Milennium


That would be the Hawkmoon monograph. ;)

I haven't looked at the Mongoose stuff yet, but it's good to have a list of their Hawkmoon stuff.  (There's also some Elric stuff, but how many books slips my mind.)  I find their printing quality to be iffy and their prices to be a bit high for the words-per-page ratio, which is why I haven't picked anything up yet.


"Reader, Carthegena was of the mind, that unto thoſe Three Things, which the Ancients held Impoſſible, there ſhould be added this Fourth ; To find a Book Printed without Errata's."

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:11 pm 
 

The Mongoose is a hardcover rulebook, and their products do look rather pretty;)

Quite an amazing list  Thanks, it makes quite a difference.

I have yet another question: did Chaosium have their own special dice for Stormbringer or did they issue the standard die set?  I imagine it's the latter, but I'd best check now.


Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day, and for once I'm inclined to believe...we are indeed drifting into the arena of the unwell.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:38 pm 
 

Things stay odd with Stormbringer: I really want some answers!



This looks to be the second edition box:




** expired eBay auction **




However, the seller has confirmed that the box's contents, including the red/rust coloured 144 page rulebook, have the 1981 copyright.



This map colouration looks exactly like mine, and unlike Mark's.  



The rear of the box, like mine, bears the 1981 copyright, and the "What's in this box" description on the back of the box mentions a single, not triple, rulebook.



Perhaps this is a 1981 second printing?  Old stock in a new, shallower box?  



I'm confused.



Help, anyone?[/i]


Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day, and for once I'm inclined to believe...we are indeed drifting into the arena of the unwell.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:10 pm 
 

PaulKM wrote:Things stay odd with Stormbringer: I really want some answers!

This looks to be the second edition box:


** expired eBay auction **


However, the seller has confirmed that the box's contents, including the red/rust coloured 144 page rulebook, have the 1981 copyright.

This map colouration looks exactly like mine, and unlike Mark's.  

The rear of the box, like mine, bears the 1981 copyright, and the "What's in this box" description on the back of the box mentions a single, not triple, rulebook.

Perhaps this is a 1981 second printing?  Old stock in a new, shallower box?  

I'm confused.

Help, anyone?[/i]




Paul:



From our conversations with Greg Stafford I believe that the only difference between the 1st and 2nd boxed sets would be the depth of the boxes.



The contents may have multiple print runs, but I suspect that the printings of the box contents are pretty much identicle.  I strongly suspect that there was a great deal of mix and match between the sets as they were assembled.



Greg doesn't remember details like print runs and small revisions, which makes micro-edition research difficult.



As for this information (posted above):



Stormbringer 5th edition (aka Elric! revised/reformated)
Stormbringer 5th rulebook (softcover)
Gods of Chaos (monograph)
Gods of Law (monograph)
Hawkmoon 2nd edition (monograph)
Old Hrolmar (monograph)
Corum (Darcsyde Productions)




This list seems to suggest the existence of a hardcover 5th Edition Stormbringer.  Does anyone have this?



I have the Corum publication and the Hawkmoon Monograph.



I was stupid and did not snag an Old Hrolmar Monograph.



As far as I know, Gods of Law and Gods of Chaos Monographs did not actually occur.  Right?  Anyone?



Don't forget to list the unpublished prospectus manuscripts available on the Yahoo Elric Group downloads site.  These include interesting fan stuff as well as the two missing Atlas of the Young Kingdoms publications that never made it to the printer.



Also...an opinion...the D20 Dragon Lords of Melnibone publication is one of the most interesting gaming reads I have found.  It is too bad Chaosium did not choose to go this way even further.



I have tried to get my hands on the Straits of Chaos manuscript.  Still trying.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:16 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:This list seems to suggest the existence of a hardcover 5th Edition Stormbringer.  Does anyone have this?


That's just my bad formatting; as far as I know there's no hardcover 5th ed. book.

As far as I know, Gods of Law and Gods of Chaos Monographs did not actually occur.  Right?  Anyone?


I've encountered people who claim to have them, and I've seen a picture of the cover for one of them -- so I'm going with yes.


"Reader, Carthegena was of the mind, that unto thoſe Three Things, which the Ancients held Impoſſible, there ſhould be added this Fourth ; To find a Book Printed without Errata's."

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:01 pm 
 

g026r wrote:
I've encountered people who claim to have them, and I've seen a picture of the cover for one of them -- so I'm going with yes.



I had a vague recolution that it was an Aussie that wrote these...

Brette:)


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:17 pm 
 

beasterbrook wrote:I had a vague recolution that it was an Aussie that wrote these...


Charles Green.  No idea where he's from though.

Anyway, here's the cover of Gods of Chaos: http://index.rpg.net/pictures/show-pic.phtml?picid=3994

Supposedly that particular monograph has a terrible layout to the point of being close to unreadable.


"Reader, Carthegena was of the mind, that unto thoſe Three Things, which the Ancients held Impoſſible, there ſhould be added this Fourth ; To find a Book Printed without Errata's."

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:11 am 
 

beasterbrook wrote:

I had a vague recolution that it was an Aussie that wrote these...

Brette:)


The Corum book was by Darcsyde...an Australian company.
Liam Route...an Aussie...I have corresponded with him a small bit.

I do now recall seing pictures of the Gods of Chaos monograph.

The cover picture is a black and white version of another publication that never left the launch pad...even though it was advertised on Amazon for a considerable amount of time....right beside the unpublished Straits of Chaos.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:18 am 
 

[quote="FormCritic"]

Paul:

From our conversations with Greg Stafford I believe that the only difference between the 1st and 2nd boxed sets would be the depth of the boxes.

The contents may have multiple print runs, but I suspect that the printings of the box contents are pretty much identicle.  I strongly suspect that there was a great deal of mix and match between the sets as they were assembled.

Greg doesn't remember details like print runs and small revisions, which makes micro-edition research difficult.


FC:  I agree with your summation (such as map colour variation), but I think the members of the Acaeum have highlighted a few areas of interest for the Stormbringer collector.  And if Mars receives an answer one question may be partially solved.  Moreover I can't record, or for that matter sell, my Stormbringer as a 1st/2nd edition copy (or a variation of the 1st edition) until I'm sure of some facts.

For instance:

I think the questions concerning the 144 page blue and rust versions of the rulebook can be sussed out (even designating the blue rulebook as the rarer of the two would help)--we know the 144 page rulebook was in the first edition deep box.

However, it is Chaosium's box depth and dates which are problematic:  
Both ToT, rpg, and other sites have listed the deep box entitled, "Stormbringer" as the 1981 1st edition (stock number 2006), and the shallower box entitled, "Michael Moorcock's" Stormbringer" as the 1985 2nd edition (stock number 2101), and this information is 100% correct if the 2nd edition has three rulebooks (I assume all the dates would by 1985).

Yet, given the 1981 copyright date on my and other's shallower box's underside, including its notation of a single booklet (in fact, all the contents are copyrighted 1981) and bearing the stock number 2101X, there is a discrepancy versus the well-documented 1985, three rulebook 2nd edition, that should be investigated.

Wow, do I need my meds.:)

Best,

Paul


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:25 am 
 

I'm gonna have to get my boxes out now and have a look at small details.

Check out the Q and A with Greg Stafford strand on the Acaeum forums:

viewtopic.php?t=4109&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=stafford&start=40

Here is Greg Stafford's specific comment on the boxed Stormbringer RPG print runs.

(scroll down the page a bit...my question is on the preceeding page)

We aren't talking editions, so much as print runs.

I say "print runs' because there was not any real change in the rules between these two versions of the Stormbringer RPG.  The differences involved physical changes in box size and combination of two booklets into one.  One might say that the differences were "monetary."

As I see it, the two inch thick box should be thought of as "first print," with the one inch thick box as "second print."

You might also check back on an old strand in the Non-TSR section.  I believe its name is Sorting Out Elric.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:22 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:I'm gonna have to get my boxes out now and have a look at small details.

Check out the Q and A with Greg Stafford strand on the Acaeum forums:

As I see it, the two inch thick box should be thought of as "first print," with the one inch thick box as "second print."

You might also check back on an old strand in the Non-TSR section.  I believe its name is Sorting Out Elric.


FC:  First, I agree the only Stormbringer product that can be called the true 1st edition is the 2 inch box.  No argument there.

Thanks for the link to Greg Stafford.  From the way I read his answer, it sounds like the switch to the shallow box occurred after the initial 1981 printing.  So the 2nd run of the 1st edition used the shallow box, which explains why all the contents and the box itself are copyrighted 1981.  Hence in 1985, Chaosium reissued the shallow box, but with three booklets to make it even cheaper to print.  Sound right?  

That would make the 1981 shallow box the 1st edition, 2nd printing (for lack of a better term).  Unless someone has more information, it does make sense:).

Oh, and the link to, "Sorting out Elric" was very helpful.  Though I will have to update some of the information.

Did you make the millions you hope for, FC?;)

best,

Paul


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:42 am 
 

Just an aside. I was impressed with the price on the First print Fez 1 and Nanorien Stones:




** expired eBay auction **

  
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