Good starting points for Cthulhu?
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Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:13 am 
 

Continuing in Joe Versus the Critics...

(link from EN World D&D/RPG Newsletter #12)

Madness in London Town A review of the Goodman Games adventure for Call of Cthulhu. Plus the publisher's review of the review!


http://gamecryer.com/2009/09/06/madness-in-london-town/

There's something hilarious about a publisher stalking out individual bad reviews across the internet. Bad form, except that the ensuing "controversy" generates a lot of publicity.

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:19 am 
 

Joe Goodman seems to be quite troubled by Pookie's reviews.
I don't recall any other game company owner going to these lengths to challenge an individual reviewer.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:31 pm 
 

jasonw1239 wrote:Joe Goodman seems to be quite troubled by Pookie's reviews.
I don't recall any other game company owner going to these lengths to challenge an individual reviewer.


Joe needs to give it up. He's a great guy but these protests are making him look obsessed and odd.

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Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:57 pm 
 

Heh. Incorrect geography can be intentional. Maybe its to cause even more loss of sanity. Or, maybe its to reflect the players aren't supposed to know everything, and play the characters a certain way. It's like when I bought my Cthulhu edition that was upside down and backwards... I considered it a purposeful printing, to make me confused (that failed) and didn't give it back to them when they asked for it, cause I thought it was funny.


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:18 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Joe needs to give it up. He's a great guy but these protests are making him look obsessed and odd.
Mike B.


It makes me worry for the company.

In another interview, Joe Goodman talked about how what the grognards say matters little to him in a business sense because it is people in stores who are his main market.

His remarks seemed to refer specifically to the Acaeum in a couple of places.

Yet, here he is arguing with an obscure online reviewer with a couple of picky points to make.    :?


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Post Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:21 pm 
 

jasonw1239 wrote:Joe Goodman seems to be quite troubled by Pookie's reviews.
I don't recall any other game company owner going to these lengths to challenge an individual reviewer.


Well...yes...but remember how Gary Gygax used to blast away in print in DRAGON magazine?

For those who can remember the era, you might recall that Gygax actually made himself unpopular with gamers for a while.  His tone alienated people and made a bad impresson of D&D's creator.

Goodman hasn't done anything like that.


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Post Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:51 am 
 

Howdy,


FormCritic wrote:For those who can remember the era, you might recall that Gygax actually made himself unpopular with gamers for a while. His tone alienated people and made a bad impresson of D&D's creator.


Heh, I remember reading those when my subscription came in. I thought, yeah stick it to 'em Gary! Of course, I was only 14 and had no idea what the other side of the story was. Still, I thought they were fun to read!


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:40 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
It makes me worry for the company.

In another interview, Joe Goodman talked about how what the grognards say matters little to him in a business sense because it is people in stores who are his main market.

His remarks seemed to refer specifically to the Acaeum in a couple of places.

Yet, here he is arguing with an obscure online reviewer with a couple of picky points to make.    :?


My own experience with Goodman was about the same as Pookies. I was very interested in the DCC line and extremely disappointed to not only see it go to 4th edition but also drop the 1st edition style. While graphics, design and layout are not all important, they are important in their own way, especially if you are converting a module to the 1st edition feel that was the hallmark of the DCC line.

Goodman cannot stand criticism, if you poke him does he not pontificate.

I actually joined the Goodman Games forum because I liked the products and wanted to let them know how much I'd like to see the line continue with the 1st edition feel. But any criticism of the direction that the company was taking with their modules, with their unattractive covers and 4e game mechanics, was meet with snide arrogance and hostility.

So with a few words Goodman is able to miraculously change a fan into an opponent, and a customer into someone spending their money on someone elses products. I see with the CoC line he has not lost his magic touch.

It is interesting to find that I'm not alone in this experience.  

Here is a link a pretty funny post about all this:

http://wondrousimaginings.blogspot.com/ ... dmans.html

  

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Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:00 am 
 

If anybody is looking for a reading copy of Trail of Cthulhu from Pelgrane Press, Chaosium has a "shopworn" copy in the online store for $19.98 + shipping.

http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_inf ... ts_id=3779


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Post Posted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:32 am 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
My own experience with Goodman was about the same as Pookies. I was very interested in the DCC line and extremely disappointed to not only see it go to 4th edition but also drop the 1st edition style. While graphics, design and layout are not all important, they are important in their own way, especially if you are converting a module to the 1st edition feel that was the hallmark of the DCC line.

Goodman cannot stand criticism, if you poke him does he not pontificate.

I actually joined the Goodman Games forum because I liked the products and wanted to let them know how much I'd like to see the line continue with the 1st edition feel. But any criticism of the direction that the company was taking with their modules, with their unattractive covers and 4e game mechanics, was meet with snide arrogance and hostility.

So with a few words Goodman is able to miraculously change a fan into an opponent, and a customer into someone spending their money on someone elses products. I see with the CoC line he has not lost his magic touch.



The thing is 4E is closer to "classic" gaming than 3E ever was...which means they could have really made the modules with a 1st edition look and feel. The new format leaves me cold, and I haven't bought any of the 4E stuff. I can understand the switch from a company viewpoint, but as a collector and fan of the style they lost me completely. Then again, Jason, we are probably not the target audience anyway.  BTW I enjoy your 1E redo of DCC#0 you are doing on Dragonsfoot, good stuff.

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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:48 am 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:So with a few words Goodman is able to miraculously change a fan into an opponent, and a customer into someone spending their money on someone elses products. I see with the CoC line he has not lost his magic touch.

It is interesting to find that I'm not alone in this experience.  

Here is a link a pretty funny post about all this:

http://wondrousimaginings.blogspot.com/ ... dmans.html


This is the sort of backlash Gygax experienced back in the day when he sounded off a bit too loudly in DRAGON about TSR being the creator and proprietor of role-playing games.

Goodman would know where his sales are highest...I mean...it stands to reason.


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Post Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:00 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
Goodman would know where his sales are highest...I mean...it stands to reason.


Sure, but he has a vested interest in propping up some facts and ignoring others, if not worse. There is also the possibility of a great deal of self-denial.

Goodman is his own politcal officer. A lie is the truth if it supports the 4e revolution. Unfortunately the treasonous dogs he shoots for speaking counter-revolutionary statements are his customers.

If he provides verifiable data to support his statements then he is believable but otherwise he is just an egotistical game company owner saying, "This is true because I say it is true, now drink the kool-aid."

  


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:35 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
If there has been some criticism of the Dungeon Crawl Classics line on the Acaeum, it is not out of pettiness.  It is more like the worried warnings of someone who sees a friend drinking too often or starting an obviously bad relationship.


Nicely said.


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:37 pm 
 

jasonw1239 wrote:My recommendation would be to try to snag one of the early boxed sets.

...

Alternatively, Shadows of Yog-Sothoth was a fabulous campaign supplement that introduced players to major cults (The Hermetic Order of the Silver Twilight) and the chance of meeting major mythos creatures.

Another angle for the game is Dreamlands supplement. Originally released in a boxed set, it has been reprinted in several versions.

...

http://tinyurl.com/3dsdz4


I should note that the Dreamlands supplement has some great scenarios in it.

I'm only tossing this in to get back to CoC from Goodman ;)


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:54 am 
 

If Pookie is correct with his description of British geography in this product then it does irk me a bit.  I have read several of the Chaosium products set in England and Scotland and have always found them to be pretty accurate and the inaccuracies that exist are still within the 'believable artistic licence' range.  One of the strengths of the Chaosium game is the believable, historic setting.  Glens are not English.  Although we are British we still have our own strong national identities and it does grate to have things like this wrong.
It is odd for the Joe Goodman to have a go though.  You should just take it on the chin and improve next time round.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:59 am 
 

serleran wrote:Heh. Incorrect geography can be intentional. Maybe its to cause even more loss of sanity. Or, maybe its to reflect the players aren't supposed to know everything, and play the characters a certain way. It's like when I bought my Cthulhu edition that was upside down and backwards... I considered it a purposeful printing, to make me confused (that failed) and didn't give it back to them when they asked for it, cause I thought it was funny.


If it is intentional then they have managed to wind up any Scottish and English gamers/readers that they have.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:45 am 
 

simonmwh wrote:  Glens are not English.


:lol:

In the sense that Scotland is not England and that England and Scotland are not Ireland and that England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales make up the United Kingdom...no, glens are not English.

You would have to forgive an American writer for not knowing the linguistic roots and variations of the British Isles.  Who, exactly, are the Scotch-Irish and the Scoti and the Scots, and the Irish and the Picts and how are they related to the Celts and the Gauls and the Cornish, Welsh, Cymry, Britons, Bretons and Celto-Roman Iberians?  :lol:  

Or, that Douglas, Douglass and Dougal are all indigenous names typical of Ireland and Scotland...but that they mean "dark foreigner," as in someone who is not from Scotland or Ireland?  :D

I suspect that there might be similar linguistic confusion if we polled random citizens of London about the word "glen."

It gets even more confusing for American readers when Europeans insist on mixing geographic designators, such as the habit of refering to mountainous areas as forests...for example, the German Black Forest which is a forest but is more correctly a mountain range.  Or the British use of "wold," which means "forest" but which is most often used to describe a range of hills.  

For instance, what is "The Wold" and how is it different from "The Cotswolds?"

Well...that was fun.  OK...go on with the discussion.  :D


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:29 pm 
 

What if, for instance, a UK publisher confused something typical from one US state and another that was common knowledge to somebody from one of those states.  Surely you would expect this common knowledge to be accurate?  If it was a slight variation in a phrase then so be it but a 'glen' is a reasonably common word, especially north of the border, and none existent south.  If you are selling a product in a country don't you get  a resident to proof read it first?  It just seems like Goodman are 'cocking their snoots' at us.  I use 'us' as I'm sure the Scots don't want their glens to be relocated down here.  Just seems lazy not to check.  

As for forests.....they all used to be but were chopped down to fuel the Industrial Revolution. I suppose once something has a name then it sticks.  As for the Wold I have never heard of it.  I live just south of the Weald though.

I think if you polled the random, educated, citizens of London they would know where to find glens.  Isn't it the educated part of the populus that CoC is aimed at? :?:

  

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:01 pm 
 

simonmwh wrote: Isn't it the educated part of the populus that CoC is aimed at? :?:


Good point.


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:05 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
You would have to forgive an American writer for not knowing the linguistic roots and variations of the British Isles.  Who, exactly, are the Scotch-Irish and the Scoti and the Scots, and the Irish and the Picts and how are they related to the Celts and the Gauls and the Cornish, Welsh, Cymry, Britons, Bretons and Celto-Roman Iberians?  :lol:  



Surely the point of being a writer in any form is to research your subject and get details correct? There is a depth to the nuances of the English (or British) language that is not realised or understood by others.

The same could be said of 'American' english and its difference to english.

Does that make it incorrect, or just different?  :?  

But, I'd think to say that an American writer wouldn't know about something like this is a little condescending.

So, I'd say to call anything a glen in England is inviting Mr Cock-up to the party.  

:lol:


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