[non-TSR] WotC's The Primal Order
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Post Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:02 am 
 

OK folks, here's another query for you.  I have a copy of WotC's main TPO rulebook, but this one on eBay doesn't have the same cover, so has anyone seen it before/know more about this printing/etc.??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=44111

Thanks!


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:24 am 
 

Anyone have ideas on this?


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:12 pm 
 

By the time I got here, the photo was gone. I have both TPO printings, so I'll go home and look. Are you aware of the other books in that series?


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:38 pm 
 

The TPO pictured in this image is not the one that I referenced in the above link: http://i20.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/04/c1/9b_1.JPG I have a copy of the one there, but not the one I originally listed above.  If you have both, that should enable you to sort them out, right??

I'm only aware of the four titles in the series linked above, Brett.  Did any others eventually see print?  (FWIW, I also have two unpublished TPO manuscripts from back in the days of the TPO mailing lists...).


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:12 pm 
 

I have also seen a second cover also on Ebay, thought I had both, just looked
only have one (the one shown in grodog picture - blue with a person standing behind world between their hand and a winged female (angel type)? partially in the left foreground)

I have 4 books, a fifth was being prepared Bishops: The Eternal Crusade
by Loren Miller, but I have never seen it and do not believe it was printed.  

See a review of all 4 books at The Inside Scoop on Gaming - RPGnet

There currently is an auction on ebay with the above descriped TPO
number, No not my auction - just looked to see if out there - 5179995741.
Jon

Grodog:  are the unpublished TPO manuscripts you mention both for the original book called The Primal Order are were you referring to the line of books?

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:03 pm 
 

Here's a complete list of what was planned/released:

0001        THE PRIMAL ORDER
0002        THE PRIMAL ORDER, MILITARY ORDER -- NOT RELEASED
0300        THE PRIMAL ORDER, RIVALS OF ESTHEDIL -- NOT RELEASED
0400        THE PRIMAL ORDER, PAWNS: THE OPENING MOVE
0401        THE PRIMAL ORDER, KNIGHTS: STRATEGIES IN MOTION
0402        THE PRIMAL ORDER, BISHOPS: THE FINAL CRUSADE
0403        THE PRIMAL ORDER, CHESSBOARDS: THE PLANES OF POSSIBILITY

The only two that were not published, based on what I've been able to determine, were the The Primal Order, Military Order & The Primal Order, Rivals Of Esthedil.

The Primal Order, Bishops: The Final Crusade is hard to find. I have seen it come up twice on eBay.

If anyone has additional info or knows of additional items, please pipe in.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:19 pm 
 

dbartman wrote:Here's a complete list of what was planned/released:

0001        THE PRIMAL ORDER
0002        THE PRIMAL ORDER, MILITARY ORDER -- NOT RELEASED
0300        THE PRIMAL ORDER, RIVALS OF ESTHEDIL -- NOT RELEASED
0400        THE PRIMAL ORDER, PAWNS: THE OPENING MOVE
0401        THE PRIMAL ORDER, KNIGHTS: STRATEGIES IN MOTION
0402        THE PRIMAL ORDER, BISHOPS: THE FINAL CRUSADE
0403        THE PRIMAL ORDER, CHESSBOARDS: THE PLANES OF POSSIBILITY

The only two that were not published, based on what I've been able to determine, were the The Primal Order, Military Order & The Primal Order, Rivals Of Esthedil.


I haven't seen Bishops before, nor any of the X Order books (WotC had planned an entire series of tomes based on military, economic, etc. themes; none saw the light of day).  

I have the Rivals of Esthedil ms. by Jonathan Tweet and the ms. for a cyberpunk-ish crossover TPO tome IIRC.  I'll have to check and see later....

The Primal Order, Bishops: The Final Crusade is hard to find. I have seen it come up twice on eBay.


Who wrote this one?  Anyone have an ISBN?


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:02 am 
 

You know, I couldn't find any trace of it. I recall that it had a armored clerical sort in front of a building on the cover. That's about all I can remember other than they went for a decent price, thus the reason I didn't get one of them. I didn't realize at the time that it would be that difficult to find, since the other items were not, when I picked them up.

I'm curious now as to whether it was even published by WOTC.  Maybe we could track down Loren Miller?

  


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:56 pm 
 

I looked at my collection. The version that you gave the image of the cover (with the two figures and the floating world) is the first edition of the TPO from 1992. Once WOTC got rich off MTG and before they got so rich that they bought TSR, they decided a second edition was in order. The other cover (with the religious knight in front of the ruined church) is the second edition, put out in 1995.

It has more pages (250) than the original.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:15 am 
 

slocum wrote:It has more pages (250) than the original.


Thanks for the detail slocum.  I wonder if there are any substantive differences in the content, or is the font just larger? ;)

I'll do some more digging on the other books in the series, and report back.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:14 am 
 

I pinged Peter Adkison (ex-CEO of WotC) on Bishops, and he has this to say on the subject:

Peter Adkison via grodog wrote:Nope, Bishops never made it to print. We had commissioned a freelance assignment for that task to a gamer named Ryk Spoor. I'm not sure how far he ever got with it, but it's possible he had a very early draft of
a manuscript that's floating around.


So, I'm now very curious what you saw on eBay, dbartman:  according to Peter, those books were never printed!  I've pinged Ryk and will report back with more details once I hear back from him.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:33 pm 
 

Is anyone able to validate that copies of TPO: Bishops exist?


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:41 pm 
 

Gro,

I think the book that I thought was the TPO: Bishops was in fact the second edition that slocum mentioned previously.  I knew that it wasn't one of the books I already had.  I could have sworn that it was listed as the TPO: Bishops book.  If so, probably just an error in the listing based on the facts posted.  Wish I would have picked it up and there wouldn't have been any doubt what it was...

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:09 pm 
 

Does anyone know what a 2nd edition of Primal Order cost?

Brette:)


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:22 pm 
 

I think cover cost was the same, Brette, but I can confirm later tonight.


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:00 pm 
 

hmm.. maybe I should say What does it costs now, rather than what it did cost;) Brette:)


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Post Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:00 pm 
 

The 2nd printings seem to be less common than the 1sts, but I've gotten at least one copy at ~$25 or so (so, close to cover; can't check atm, since Heather's asleep early).


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:46 pm 
 

grodog wrote:The 2nd printings seem to be less common than the 1sts, but I've gotten at least one copy at ~$25 or so (so, close to cover; can't check atm, since Heather's asleep early).


They are less common than firsts (I'm still trying to find one), but $25 appears to be a good floor price.  I've seen some go for more, but not enough to give a good estimate of the average.


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Post Posted: Sat May 02, 2009 10:44 pm 
 

2nd printing of TPO had a cover price of $20, and the systems it includes conversion notes for may be a bit different:  Palladium is removed, but it also includes Kult and World of Darkness, which I don't recall being among the 1st printing systems (I could be wrong though, since now that my 2nd printing book is at my desk, the 1st printing books are upstairs, and Heather's asleep already again ;) ).


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Post Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 5:41 pm 
 

grodog wrote:(I could be wrong though, since now that my 2nd printing book is at my desk, the 1st printing books are upstairs, and Heather's asleep already again ;) ).


My copy of the 1st is on a shelf right behind me, and checking it confirms that you are not wrong. :)


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