Beasts, Men and Gods
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:43 am 
 

Sounds similar to the Warwick Supplements or Nimolee.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:42 pm 
 

have a look here:

http://orion.math.iastate.edu/danwell/Hgaming.html

this guy says his game "Realm of the powers" has been inspired by "Beasts men & gods" but after five revisions only a very small amount of those rules remained in the game he created.

To whoever has played "BM&G" i'd like to ask if the rules of "Realm of the powers" are similar or not to those of BM&G

They are online and visible on that site.

thanks

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:54 am 
 

On Afterglow site

http://www.afterglow2.com/Product/Imagination.htm

it says (maybe are they Lawrence Schick's words?) that:

"this seminal variation on the D&D game system sits on the shelves of..."

Considering this phrase, and adding the fact that the first printing of this game dates back to 1980, i assume that this "seminal variation" is definitely a variation  on the D&D game system rather than a variation on the AD&D game system.

I don't know, it could have borrowed ideas from AD&D as well, because the AD&D player's handbook came out in 1978- two years earlier than "Beasts men & gods".

Any opinions?

  


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:18 am 
 

bm&g is not listed in heroic worlds, so i would doubt that that is a quote from lawrence schick.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:14 pm 
 

I found this thread looking up old games I used to play.  To understand my perspective I'm 40ish and last played regularly 20+ years ago.  AD&D was current when I quit, and I didn't realize TSR wasn't still around and hadn't heard of WOTC until a year or so ago.  :)  So when I say D&D I'm talking basic, expert, and advanced D&D.   

My buddies and I played BMG in high school in Topeka.  Even played a few times with Bill Underwood DMing, and had the opportunity to discuss aspects of the game with him on several occasions.  We preferred it to D&D, because it dealt with many inconsistencies that drove us nuts.  once we started playing BMG we never went back to D&D (at least when i was playing).  I would call it very D&D like/inspired, but it's not a d20 system.  

For instance I remember talking with Bill, and him saying there must be +1 sword factories somewhere in D&D land as they were all over the place, yet it took a fairly powerful magic user to make one.  In BMG a beginning mage could enchant a weapon to be +1 temporarily, and by 4th level make permanent +1 weapons.  

We also liked the mana point system for spells better than the memorize and forget method.  

I found D&D clerics and religion to be hard to ref.  In BMG characters have a Morals score where zero was neutral, a neg score was evil, and a positive score was good.  It was modified by the PC's actions at the DM's discretion.  Do something bad get -1.  Do something self sacrificing get +1.  If the PC relied on powers from a God they had to stay in the right range of Morals to retain their spell powers.  A PC's morals might influence whether or not their god would offer divine assistance.

The combat system was a little more complex than AD&D, with dodging and parrying, and different hit locations.  But it stilled played pretty fast.  

I've still got my copy, 2nd edition I think, although it's in horrible shape:  duct tape binding, pages falling out.  This isn't so much from over use.  It fell apart pretty quickly after purchase.  My friends and I all had Xerox copies in three ring binders as it was pretty much impossible to use the original book with all the pages falling out.  I still have my binder too.  I heard that other printings were more durable, but all the books I saw were falling apart.

As mentioned above it has paired stats.  STR & CON, INT & WIS, DEX & BOW (bowskill), CHA & PA (personal appearance), and WP (willpower) all by itself.  Roll a 1d6 common die for each pair, then add 2d6 to each stat.  This was to make it impossible to have a guy with 18 STR and 3 CON and such.  If a stat was 18 roll 1d6-3, and add it to the stat if positive.

It has Stamina and HP.  Stamina was sort of like dodging.  It only applied to targets who knew they were being attacked, and could dodge out of the way.  Giant lumbering creatures didn't have Stamina.  HP was real blood letting.  When you ran out of Stamina or were surprise attacked you started taking real HP dam.  Stamina healed quickly.  HP much slower.

The classes were:

Warrior:  typical D&D fighter

Thief:  typical D&D thief

Elf:  sort of thief - mages

Dwarf:  typical Dwarf

Forester:  like D&D ranger

Enchanters:  magic user with spells that control beings

Arcane Lorist:  D&D magic user

Nature Lorist:  D&D druid

Illusionist:  D&D illusionist

Elementalist:  pick one of the 4 elements, and the spells reflect it

Necromancer:  necromancer

Shadow Mage:  thief - mage

Priest of Exonerous:  like a paladin warrior - mage, Exonerous was the king of Gods, chivalry, purity in battle, etc...

Priest of Sautarius:  mage of light, Sautarius was the sun goddess daughter of Exonerous

Priest of Rashok:  Rashok was the evil son of Exonerous

There are some other gods mentioned.  Thaug was described as the god of Death and necromancers.  Some shadow mages worshiped Shadur.

There are some other classes mentioned in the stat and charts, such as Barbarians, but my book doesn't have an actual description of such a class.

The rules cover most everything needed to play.  There are some discrepancies and loose ends, but overall a complete system.  Half the book is the magic system and spells.

A quick look at Realm of the Powers and I see some fundamentals that look familiar, but a lot of new stuff.  

BMG is a pretty cool game, but I don't know about $100.  Then again I'm much more into playing than collecting.  Hopefully Bill can figure out a way to distribute a pdf or something.  I'd love to get his ideas on the realm it took place in.  There are some neat ideas in the book, but I remember hearing Bill mention a lot of cool stuff that wasn't in the books when we hung out and talked with him.  If there have been revisions I'd also like to see those.  Bill impressed me as someone who really thought things out.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:24 pm 
 

This is excellent information.  Thank you for taking the time to share so much.  It's a wonderful look into role-playing history.   :)


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 7:20 am 
 

Really wish I'd taken the time to PDF this when I had the chance. Hope someone will release a PDF at some point.

Presumably this could be republished verbatim, on the grounds that is has been published for years and therefor cannot breach anyone's IP (even if it did, the fact that it remained unchallenged for 30 years proves that no breach of IP was percieved and that Hasbro are trying to impose their IP in retrospect).

Id' like to see this republished verbatim.


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:25 am 
 

Excellent description, indeed.
Did anyone heard from Bill Underwood since his last post?


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:48 am 
 

thanks for these precious information!

i would be the first person to buy it if it was released in pdf copy, but it seems Bill Underwood "disappeared"..i don't know who could help us at this point.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:20 pm 
 

Well you might be able to communicate with him on LinkedIn

http://www.linkedin.com/in/wunderwood

In his profile is this


Bill Underwood's Education

   *
     University of Kansas

     BA , English , 1977 — 1981

     While busy getting the BA in English, I also wrote and published a 225 page book called Beasts, Men & Gods, a fantasy role-play game. It was written on a Smith-Corona electric typewriter (pre-desktop publishing!) with artwork from local KU artists.

     Activities and Societies:
         Role-Play gaming group, self published author (Beasts Men & Gods), Student Senator



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Post Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:26 am 
 

i already did it.

i sent him a mail several months ago but he never replied.

If others want to try..

  

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:06 pm 
 

Alas, bad news.

Chances to see a copy of "Beasts, men & gods" are becoming increasingly difficult.

This is because some days ago even  the only remaining copy  owned by "Noble knight" was purchased.

You can see it here:

http://www.nobleknight.com/ViewProducts.asp_Q_ProductLineID_E_2137423671_A_ManufacturerID_E_2145084725_A_CategoryID_E_0_A_GenreID_E_9

Maybe it was bought by someone here at Acaeum.

Anyway, considering that no one apparently is able to release a PDF version (though they exist),  that this last copy has gone, and that Bill Underwood doesn't seem to be interested in  replying  to e-mails about this.....i'm kind of disappointed.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:54 pm 
 

It's not the only D&Desque product by Bill Underwood.


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Post Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:07 pm 
 

Vault keeper wrote:This is because some days ago even  the only remaining copy  owned by "Noble knight" was purchased.




:)  I needed that print to so now I have both.



Amazon.com still has a used copy for sale (for a bit cheaper than NK):



http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... ition=used

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:07 pm 
 

Thanks, i knew the amazon link.

You should be really satisfied  to have both print and electronic format of it.:D

In the meantime, i contacted Mr. Underwood today asking for a digital copy to purchase which he is likely to have, because 100 dollars is too much for me now.

Oddly enough, "B.M. & G." is the only product i'm really after. Apart from that, my RPG collection after many years in the hobby is complete and i have no further desires. :D

  

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 3:42 pm 
 

Vault keeper wrote:In the meantime, i contacted Mr. Underwood today asking for a digital copy to purchase which he is likely to have, because 100 dollars is too much for me now.


I don't have an electronic copy - I tend to prefer hardcopies over pdfs.

I tried emailing Mr. Underwood a while back about finding someone he mentioned he was looking for but didn't hear back at all.

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:07 pm 
 

Did you already read it?

In that case, i would like to ask if it is a D&D variant (i mean, similar to "The Complete Warlock" in this sense)?

thanks.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:26 pm 
 

I haven't a chance to read through this one.  Its on my list when I get some time.

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