Beasts, Men and Gods
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 812, 3 ... 678
Author

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2737
Joined: May 31, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 22, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:05 am 
 

Ok, I'm confused, or just stupid, but I just acquired a copy of this book and, while not in the greatest condition (definitely not in collectible shape; I'd rate it as one step above poor, or Poor +), is an interesting read... it still has me baffled. According to a website I found (I think it was the Afterglow Rare Non-TSR one) it lists that title as being published by a company called Imagination Unlimited. The copy I have says 1st printing, written by Bill Underwood, but published by The Game Masters in 1980.

Anyone know more about it?

Are there two different books with the same name, released by two different companies at the same time?

I hate not being knowledgeable.

Thanks.


Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.


Last edited by copycat on Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5626
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:27 am 
 

I think the Gamemasters was the publisher. It's a REALLY neat book.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Active Collector

Posts: 22
Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Last Visit: Dec 09, 2020

Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:30 pm 
 

Hey, guess what? That's me :)

Sorry for the delayed response. I hope you see this.

I am Bill Underwood and I am honored to be told that it was a good set of rules. It doesn't quite play as well as I had wished but it was probably well regarded back in 1980 when I wrote it.

I was a senior at K.U. and I printed 500 copies at the local university press. I had it perfect bound at Messeraul (?) printing in Lawrence, KS. I incorporated in Kansas with some friends as Imagination Unlimited, LTD. We had originally called the company "The Game Masters".

We sold out of the first 500 copies and printed 1000 more but that was about it. We had production problems and for various obscure reasons, the company folded around late 1983. We only printed the one book (2 editions) and a few other things. One module "Ice Tower of the Frozen Wind" was a BMG tournament scenario at Fool Con 1983 (?) (sci-fi fantasy convention in Overland Park, KS) and a hundred or less copies of the scenario were published. We also printed "Geomorphic Wilderness Hexagons", a referee outdoor wilderness utility.

Thanks for asking,

===Bill Underwood===

  

User avatar

Sage Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2454
Joined: Nov 06, 2002
Last Visit: Mar 29, 2021
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:40 pm 
 

Another one out of the woodwork:) You wil of course be inundated with request of if you have any.. So I may as well get in publicly first:P... The 3 items above were all you did?

Brette:)


Being healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

 WWW  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2737
Joined: May 31, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 22, 2021

Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:43 pm 
 

Wow, sweet. An answer from the one man who could be considered the only expert on the matter. :) 500 copies, only, bear the "1st print" stigma, huh? Yay! That makes me even more happy with my acquisition.

I must say I hold the book as one of my favorites, placed, easily, in my top 20 non-TSR items. Even if it might be considered "clunky" or "weird" these days, its full of inspiration and that's what I look for when I play.

What I like the most is that its not simply an expansion, but a system in itself, much like The Arcanum or Arduin.

Anyway, thanks for the response!


Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

  


Active Collector

Posts: 22
Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Last Visit: Dec 09, 2020

Post Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:47 pm 
 

Outta the woodwork? 8O Ok, well then.

Heh, oh yeah... I have like 3 or maybe even 4 or 5 copies lying around the house somewhere in good condition. That is it though. I can't part with the last ones. There were a few hundred (maybe more) that I never saw again after late 1983. I packed the whole set of 2nd edition books up (several boxes full) along with a TRS-80 computer and some other junk, and shipped it to a "friend" of mine I never heard from again that was living in Olympia Washington.

There was a fly-by-night outfit (not a real company I don't believe) The names I recall are "Jason Brown" (my friend, originally from Kansas City) and I believe "Greg Byers" of "Byers, Wildermuth and Associates" (that's what they called themselves). They got the bulk of the unsold books. Probably in a landfill by now. :(

I am reluctant to part with my few remaining copies, folks, sorry. But I am almost 50 so maybe in another decade or two you'll have a shot at them. Watch the estate sales. Or the landfills.

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2737
Joined: May 31, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 22, 2021

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:06 am 
 

Hey, I have a real question, if you can answer (or if you don't, that's OK too): do you own the rights to the material? Interested in allowing it to be back in print? :) And, yes, I am serious.


Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

  


Active Collector

Posts: 22
Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Last Visit: Dec 09, 2020

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:52 am 
 

I am not sure what the copyright laws would say, but I believe that I controll the rights. I did not transfer them to that long-defunct company. And sure, I would be interested in seeing it published again someday.

If nothing else, it would be a hell of a lot easier that it was the first time when a typo meant white-out or worse yet retyping the damned page. A couple of decades ago we saw the birth of desktop publishing. :)

So, what did you have in mind?

serleran wrote:Hey, I have a real question, if you can answer (or if you don't, that's OK too): do you own the rights to the material? Interested in allowing it to be back in print? :) And, yes, I am serious.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:58 am 
 

i think having a word with grodog on here might establish whether that can be done!

i am certainly very interested - this is the kinda thing i love to collect!

great to see another item come out of the wilderness so to speak!

serl, could you scan the cover ?

thanks

Al



  

User avatar

Sage Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2454
Joined: Nov 06, 2002
Last Visit: Mar 29, 2021
Location: Queensland, Australia

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:14 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:i think having a word with grodog on here might establish whether that can be done!

i am certainly very interested - this is the kinda thing i love to collect!

great to see another item come out of the wilderness so to speak!

serl, could you scan the cover ?

thanks

Al


There is a copy of the cover on afterglow2

Brette:)


Being healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:26 am 
 

which reminds me...whats happened to ian these days?



  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2070
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Last Visit: Apr 10, 2021
Location: Far Harad, Texas

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:37 am 
 

Interesting possible source for the title:
http://www.harvestfields.ca/ebook/02/047/00.htm

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5626
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:49 am 
 

I believe mine was a first printing. It was definitely one of my top 10 items.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  

User avatar

Prolific Collector

Posts: 851
Joined: Jun 12, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 07, 2021

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:01 pm 
 

killjoy32 wrote:i think having a word with grodog on here might establish whether that can be done!

From what I recall with GDW and Traveller, upon the death of the company, the rights to the material return to its author, if they've been assigned to the company.  This is why Marc W. Miller can reprint Traveller material, excepting DGP Traveller material.

serleran is a good source to get the book reprinted, as Troll Lord Games could utilize the printing company they use for their books to get the book back into print.



  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2737
Joined: May 31, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 22, 2021

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:21 pm 
 

serl, could you scan the cover?


I sure can, but part of the reason my copy is listed as Poor + (as I judge it - others might consider it better, or worse) is that there's a tear and lots of curling. I got the book in a lot (had to fight off some of you fellows to do so, too) but if you really need to see it, I can do so. Give me a little bit since I have to exhume the scanner.

At least I finally got the smoke smell out. :( Made me sick just trying to read the book.


Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2737
Joined: May 31, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 22, 2021

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:36 pm 
 

So, what did you have in mind?


A full-on reprint, to start, with some additions (hopefully from you) and cleaning up the text, layout, artwork, and so forth. Or, maybe a "conversion" though I would rather not as its uniqueness might be lost - this would be a matter of preference as it might mean better sales. Perhaps this is best discussed through email. I can be reached at serleran [at] gmail period com.

Of course, none of this is set in stone, and is idle speculation and discussion. :) So, please, no rumormongering on other websites.


Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

  


Active Collector

Posts: 22
Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Last Visit: Dec 09, 2020

Post Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:41 pm 
 

Actually, I don't think I transferred the copyright over to the other company, so it still belongs to me, AFAIK. Besides, the company has been defunct for more than 20 years now, so if the copyright goes back to the orignal author, it is mine that way too.

I could always consider cutting the binding off of one of the remaining copies and flat-bed scanning it - then doing an OCR treatment of it and issue a reprint. But then again, it would mean that I would have to find all the original artists because I would owe them royalties. That would be just about impossible. Hmm..

I probably wouldn't want to change it, aside from correcting a few things, even though (to be fair) even the 2nd edition combat system was too concerned with game mechanics and too cumbersome for simple battles.

On the other hand, there were *some* interesting rules variants for Beasts, Men & Gods that I came up with later that I wish I could find some way to wedge into d20 rules. :)

I'll send you an email this evening perhaps. And all preliminary, of course.

  


Collector

Posts: 1
Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Last Visit: Mar 13, 2008

Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:10 am 
 

underdog wrote:And all preliminary, of course.


Some friends and I used to play BMG - probably for about 7 years from 1986 to 1993 when we moved apart.  Such great memories...

If the republishing happens please post on how to order copies - I know I'd like a copy or three.

Cheers!

  


Active Collector

Posts: 22
Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Last Visit: Dec 09, 2020

Post Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:37 am 
 

Nice to know and thanks.

As far as republishing goes...

I tried scanning a few of the pages from BMG and using an OCR progam on them and the conclusion I have arrived at is that any techniques still will require a lot of human intervention. Maybe i will find recruits to help with proofreading these pages, but I am pessimistic at the moment.

I do have a flatbed scanned copy of the cover from the 1st edition and I will try to remember to post a link to it here sometime tomorrow (i.e... 01/18/2008)

===Bill Underwood===

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2737
Joined: May 31, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 22, 2021

Post Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:58 pm 
 

I hope my email address was not too cryptic, but I did not receive anything. That is OK, if you prefer to not go this route. There are always others. If you do wish to pursue, though, I await word and indication.


Those who can, don't. Those who should not, do.

  
Next
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 812, 3 ... 678