Knights of Camelot
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Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:55 am 
 

misterspock wrote:So I'm wondering, did Dave Sutherland do the maps, or could those have been by Darlene (uncredited)?


Bingo! Look at the bottom left of the scan of the map posted here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/60278?size=large

Below the "KEY", it's signed "Map by Darlene".

The place-name fonts look like the ones used on the Greyhawk maps.

Also, do you know who "Eymoth" refers to? I know that name is credited in the Deities & Demigods manual, but it almost sounds like a pseudonym.


Looking through Deities, I can't even figure out which picture(s) are by Eymoth. It's not a pseudonym for Darlene, though, since she is credited separately, and did a lot pieces in the Greek and Japanese mythos (plus the large titles for each pantheon - never noticed it before, but each has a tiny "dp" included).

I thought it might be the pic of Azathoth at the bottom of page 43 (Cthulhu mythos) that is signed "OOL", but I think this is for "Ool Eurts" (an anagram of Erol Otus used for a Drow in A4):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erol_Otus

The only clearly identified Eymoth work I can find anywhere is the cover of the 2nd edition of Dargon's Dungeon for Tunnels & Trolls, which is signed "EYMOTH" at the bottom:
http://wiki.acaeum.com/wiki/Image:Dargo ... _color.jpg
Edit: Eymoth is also the cover artist for Knights of Camelot, according to the Wiki page: http://wiki.acaeum.com/wiki/Knights_of_Camelot

There's a lot of artwork in Deities, and some is unsigned, so I may have missed something.


Last edited by Zenopus on Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:46 am 
 

Here's something interesting:

"Dark Cults" (Dark House Publishing). This is a storytelling card game from 1983, written by Kenneth Rahman. The game is moody, and light on mechanics. The fantastic black and white artwork on the cards is also by Rahman (using the pseudonym "Eymoth") and is worth the cost of the game itself. The logo for Dark House bears more than a passing resemblance to that of Arkham House.


http://www.hplovecraft.com/internet/ahcfaq/games.asp

So, Eymoth = Kenneth Rahman, one of the designers of Knights of Camelot.

In Deities, perhaps he drew the Arthurian heroes that are unsigned.

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Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:14 pm 
 

zhowar wrote:(plus the large titles for each pantheon - never noticed it before, but each has a tiny "dp" included).


Hey, I never noticed that, too! Great catch.

zhowar wrote:I thought it might be the pic of Azathoth at the bottom of page 43 (Cthulhu mythos) that is signed "OOL", but I think this is for "Ool Eurts" (an anagram of Erol Otus used for a Drow in A4):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erol_Otus


Yep, OOL is definitely Erol Otus' alter ego.  One of the auction items from the Kevin Hendryx sale mentioned that connection.

zhowar wrote:The knights/ladies card artwork looks like Sutherland or LaForce (DSL):
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/19748?size=large


Thanks for tracking down who Eymoth is.  If he did the box cover art, then it seems similar to Divine Right's box cover art (with a "hatchmark"-looking signature).

BTW, I thought I recognized the name Kenneth Rahman from somewhere, and tracked it down to a Days of the Dragon calendar from 1979 (February art).

My impression is that the counter art looks more like the work of Eymoth, than either Dave Sutherland or Dave LaForce.

Mike.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:22 pm 
 

IIRC, he's also the brother of Divine Right's co-designer, Glenn Rahman.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:49 pm 
 

misterspock wrote:BTW, I thought I recognized the name Kenneth Rahman from somewhere, and tracked it down to a Days of the Dragon calendar from 1979 (February art).

the same. more usual sign as Elrohir for early d&d + sf gaming art

  


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:04 pm 
 

Why is this in non-TSR?

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Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:29 pm 
 

TheMilford wrote:Why is this in non-TSR?


Sometimes the two forums get mixed up between D&D vs NonD&D and TSR vs NonTSR.

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Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:51 pm 
 

Interesting old post on DF by Frank Mentzer re: KoC

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewt ... 58#p251958

Frank Mentzer wrote:
JASON THE RULESREADER wrote:My wife and I were playing KNIGHTS OF CAMELOT last night and a couple of questions came up.
Heya Jason.

I'm afraid you're reaching too far back here. When the Rahmans (creators of the best-seller Divine Right) came to us with KoC, it looked like another winner, and sales proved that correct.

The 1st edition, however, had a 36-page rulebook. Why is this a Bad Thing, you ask? Because in printing, books in signatures of 16 pages cost-effective, but otherwise you have to add a cutting/insert phase, which is expensive. So for the 2nd edition I crammed it down into a 32-pager, and voila. (I did editing, layout, and playtesting for both editions.)

However, I remember little about the game itself, and can't help you with your questions. As a guess I'd say you're limited to one Request per turn.


More info from Frank on this topic here:
http://www.darclight.com/OldGenConForum ... t.aspx.htm
Anecdote: This design by the Rahmans (who did the earlier and very famous Divine Right game) was initially released with a 36-page rulebook and a slight design flaw in the box (name too small on the side). So I volunteered to trim it down to a much cheaper 32 pages, and the reprint also of course fixed the box design. These two printings are thus very easy to identify. I'm just a Playtester in the first one I think, but Developer/Editor in the second. Sadly I had to turn down a subsequent Rahman design called Crimson Cutlass (pirate ship v ship), which we thought was too cumbersome in play; it took too darn long to resolve all the individual fights. They released it years later on their own. Super-obscure datum buried in this verbage: you'll also find Rahman credited as co-designer of "Dark Cults", a horror storytelling cardgame. If you can find it. ;>

Publishing Trivia: Why is 32 so hugely better than 36? Start with one large sheet and start folding... 2 pages, 4, 8, 16, 32. Do the layout right, run it thru a folder, edgecutter, saddlestitcher for the staples (all automatic printers' machinery), and you're done. But a 36 pg thus adds one folded sheet of 4 pages in the middle and has to be inserted manually before stapling, adding a disproportionately large cost.


Last edited by Zenopus on Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:11 pm 
 

HermitFromPluto wrote:The credits for the interior art list: Jeff Dee, David LaForce, David C. Sutherland III and Eymoth

But you are right, the images on the cover of the rulebook are signed 'Wilingham' at the bottom. His name does not appear anywhere in the credits. Interesting.

Just had a leaf through the rule book and there are three Jeff Dee sketches, another Wilingham sketch and 2 that are unsigned.


Could the artwork discrepancies be due to changes in the 2nd edition (i.e., artwork changes without corresponding revised credits)?


At the bottom right of this picture (from a current auction) is the 1st printing rulebook from a current auction:

Image

Note the absence of the Willingham artwork on page 1. In the 2nd print, they added his artwork but forgot to include him in the artist credits.

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:36 am 
 

I'll have to try and get my hands on a first edition. Some interesting information has emerged in this discussion!  :)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:17 am 
 

I have a 1st edition copy if you want me to look anything up.  I have a 2nd as well but it is in shrink which makes it a bummer for doing a fullout comparison.

The credits in the 1st list:

Box Art: Eymoth and Erol Otus
Map: Darlene Pekul
Interior Art: Jeff Dee, David S. LaForce, David C. Sutherland III, and Eymouth

The only piece of art that I can see inside that is signed is one with .D.

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