Survey Says... (Worst Game System?)
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:11 pm 
 

Worst system? anything above 2nd edition Dungeons and Dragons, Ever stat for an encounter seems to be half a page long listing every aspect/trait/skill/personality of a monster, even if it is just a 4 hitpont kolbold.. apparently 4 hit point kolbolds are individuals too with their own unique skills such as kung fu action grip, thievery, diplomacy, hide, arcane lore knowledge, weather prediction...blah blah.. does sure seem to fill alot of useless space and pages though... who needs plot and adventure when you got stat blocks though.. right?


Last edited by Afrika Corps on Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:15 pm 
 

But then again is there anything as simple as a 4 hitpoint kolbold in the new d20/3rd edition? of course not: every kolbold is at least a 10th level thief/barbarian/mage/assasin. Just being cheeky.. I know some kolbolds have not quite mastered that level yet..lol

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:48 am 
 

No argument here about the cumbersome nature of the current 3.5 rules.  A game master has to be on his toes to run the game.  Every monster is a player character and every player character is a monster.

I guess we 3rd edition guys just like complication.  There are, however, far fewer arguments about the rules.

My advice for anyone interested in game mastering 3rd edition is to buy pdf's of the rule books...particularly the monster manuals...lots easier to run when you can print out pages and have the monsters literally in-hand.

I wouldn't say that 3.5 is such a bad set of rules so much as I would say that 1st edition AD&D (a pox on 2nd edition) was a very good set of rules.  But, the problems with 1st edition AD&D were already beginning to crop up when TSR went to 2nd edition.  Skills, NPC classes and a plethora of jury-rigged rules had already drastically altered 1st edition.

Still...no arguments here about the offensive potential of kobolds in 3rd edition.  

The question would be if you like killer kobolds?


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:59 am 
 

Thought I would throw out one for total clunk factor ...

Judges Guild Universal Format ... I don't think the rule set was ever completely ironed out and some of the monsters they came up with in _Field Guide to Encounters_ were just plan crazy ...

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:21 am 
 

WereSteve wrote:Thought I would throw out one for total clunk factor ...

Judges Guild Universal Format ... I don't think the rule set was ever completely ironed out and some of the monsters they came up with in _Field Guide to Encounters_ were just plan crazy ...

Do you mean crazy as in, oh, the Toast Golem?

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:45 am 
 

TOAST
Hit Dice: 2
Damage Done: 1-6 By Bite
Armour Class: 9
Class: Construct C Toast with Face/Feet/Hands
Height: 2M
Color: Brown to Tan
Special Abilities: 1. Special Toast is black & AC 3
Category: Land
In Dungeon: Y
Our Monster: Y
Gravity Code: .9 to 3 G=s
Environment Code: CC
Temperature Range Code: CC
Special Environment Code: High Noxious Gas Content
Base Experience Points for Killing Monster: 30

TOAST (BURNT)
Hit Dice: 2
Damage Done: 1C6 By Bite
Armour Class: 3
Class: Construct - Burnt Toast with Face/Feet/Hands
Height: 2M
Color: Black
Category: Land
In Dungeon: Y
Our Monster: Y
Gravity Code: .9 to 3 G=s
Environment Code: CC
Temperature Range Code: CC
Special Environment Code: High Noxious Gas Content
Base Experience Points for Killing Monster: 30

:D  :D  :D

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:14 pm 
 

So if you want to start your kids playing D&D, and you do not care for the complexity of 3E, what are the options?

Certainly, you could buy old 1E or basic/expert sets, but the kids might enjoy getting involved with an RPG that is actually in print, and something they can find at brick and mortar stores (that was part of the fun when I played as a kid).

So, any suggestions of good, playable, D&D-like games that are in print?

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:28 pm 
 

Heh, I have one, but I'm biased: Castles and Crusades.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:49 pm 
 

serleran wrote:Heh, I have one, but I'm biased: Castles and Crusades.


I agree with Serleran . . . every one of you should purchase a C&C Player's Handbook and check it out!  :D


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:45 pm 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote:
I agree with Serleran . . . everyone one of you should purchase a C&C Player's Handbook and check it out!  :D


I'm not familiar with C&C, but the Troll Lord website looks pretty good.  

I'll have to look into this further (unless you're being sarcastic ... I'm pretty easily duped these days )

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:47 pm 
 

i've go to say palladium frpg. awesome ideas, rip off combat, hideuosly powerful magic

paralysis bolt at low level =  power word stun

witches have demon familiars ...

diabolists clink as they walk

and summoners put zoo keepers to shame ...

new take on a dungeon: party rolls up, summoner disappears in a cloud of chicken feathers and goat entrails for a few hours, then some hideous beasty appears and walks down the dungeon entrance. DM rolls 15,006 dice. hideous beasty returns with treas.

another fun night out ..........
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Post Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:26 pm 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote: everyone one of you should purchase a C&C Player's Handbook and check it out!


Concur.

That said, I'll proudly mention that the D&D Basic set I wrote (1983) was designed to introduce young folks to roleplaying, and most agree that it serves its purpose rather well.

It has its drawbacks -- hard to use as an ongoing reference, absurdly simplistic once you've experienced a few games, and out of print -- but it works.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:27 am 
 

ExTSR wrote:
Concur.

That said, I'll proudly mention that the D&D Basic set I wrote (1983) was designed to introduce young folks to roleplaying, and most agree that it serves its purpose rather well.

It has its drawbacks -- hard to use as an ongoing reference, absurdly simplistic once you've experienced a few games, and out of print -- but it works.


Cool.  I didn't realize one of the authors of the D&D set was active here.

If they were still in print, I think the Basic/Expert sets would be the way I'd introduce my kids and nephews into the game (it'll be in the next year or two, they're not quite old enough yet).  

But was since that system is out of print, I'd like a good D&D-type game that is available at hobby shops and bookstores.

From what I've read here, 3E appears too cumbersome for me (who'll be DM).  I don't want something too complex.

It sounds like C&C might fit the bill.

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:00 pm 
 

Tunnels & Trolls can be a great system for the ankle-biters to play. It features simple systems, three character classes ... and buckets of dice. :thumright:

It's also a pretty easy system for the DM/GM, too. In addition to a lighter rules-set, doing things "on the fly" is a time-honored T&T tradition.

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:16 pm 
 

I looked at a copy of the Castles and Crusades Players Handbook today at Half Price Books, in Tacoma.

It looks to me a lot like AD&D under a different name.

I can't see announcing to my current group members that we're jumping to a whole new game system.  8O   They'd kill me...and rightly so.


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:26 pm 
 

Back on-topic: Despite a sentimental attachment, I guess the worst RPG I've experienced would be the original Metamorphosis Alpha.

I have not played that many RPGs, of course.  Just the various D&D versions, MA, GW, and Traveller.  I didn't care much for Traveller, but it wasn't a bad system.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:28 am 
 

If they were still in print, I think the Basic/Expert sets would be the way I'd introduce my kids and nephews into the game (it'll be in the next year or two, they're not quite old enough yet).

Aren't these available as downloads from WotC?

Then again ... with all the downloads I have at the moment ... oddest TSR would probably be Marvel Super Heroes just for old times sake.  Tried it before getting into Champions ... then again ... even Hero system has changed a bit over the years that I probably wouldn't even recognize it now.

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Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:05 pm 
 

WereSteve wrote:Aren't these available as downloads from WotC?


That's a good idea.

While I could not find them on the WoTC site, DriveThruRPG.com does have them "in stock" as PDF downloads.

It's good to know those rules are readily accessible.

You know, I'm probably making much ado about nothing here.  I was just remembering how much fun it was to window shop for D&D material back when I was a kid, and -- given my reluctance to tackle 3E -- was hoping that there was a good alternative out there (and C&C does seem to fit that bill).

Maybe before I pass judgment though, I should buy the 3E basic set and see how I like it.

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