Hall of the Mountain King
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:00 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:It was VERY problematic back in the early '80s, when we had to decline the opportunity.

Nowadays I don't see any major problems. But they have to be rolled or folded, and so many maps comprise a rather heavy package.

The biggest Plus is that they're compatible with 25mm figs, and can be used with most current D&D miniatures.

Yes. Modern large scale photocopiers are very sophisticated.
So they are actually full floorplans? Like Games Workshop/Citadel trued to do with Caverns of the Undead?


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Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:21 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:It was VERY problematic back in the early '80s, when we had to decline the opportunity.

Nowadays I don't see any major problems. But they have to be rolled or folded, and so many maps comprise a rather heavy package.

The biggest Plus is that they're compatible with 25mm figs, and can be used with most current D&D miniatures.


Being a miniature man myself (that didn't sound right), I am interested in this project and would like to buy a copy should it come available.

I agree that making quality copies of larger documents are much easier and cheaper than it was 30 years ago, but I could see where this could still be a relatively pricey product.

Not that I have a say in any of this,  but if you did ask my opinion, I think I'd go with folded maps over rolled maps for a couple of reasons.  The main reason would be that storing the module would be more compact.  The second reason is that it would be a lot easier to show it off on a shelf.  The third reason is that the shipping expense would likely be less because a tube(s) would not have to be purchased.  However, due to the size of this adventure, a box(es) makes sense, and that would add back to the expense of each set.

I'm not trying to cause trouble because this is a can of worms, but if copies do become available, I'd like the publishing person/group to consider making Limited Edition, numbered copies complete with a Certificate of Authenticity.  This is a collecting community after all.   8)


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:51 pm 
 

I'd be in the market for a set.

It sounds like a great adventure, both getting it published and the product itself.

Can't wait to hear more on where this may be headed.

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:13 pm 
 

So Paul, we await your revelations, our hearts aquiver with
...investment potential.

:lol:

  

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:34 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote: However, due to the size of this adventure, a box(es) makes sense, and that would add back to the expense of each set.


I'd second the idea of a limited release (with CoA) boxed set with folded maps rather than rolled.

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:53 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote:I, for one, would be interested in acquisition or licensing of the rights, and subsequent production & distribution.


Indeed :D


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:17 am 
 

Correct me if I am wrong, Frank, but my assumption is that you would want to make this as a general population product, and not just a "collector's item?"

I'd be so down for that and would volunteer to do conversion work, if needed. I'm fairly proficient at C&C, for example... hehe.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:55 am 
 

serleran wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, Frank, but my assumption is that you would want to make this as a general population product, and not just a "collector's item?" I'd be so down for that and would volunteer to do conversion work, if needed.

Yeah, sorry to swim against the local tide, but I'd vastly prefer to make it as cost-effective as possible for as many gamers as possible.

But that said, I certainly would consider a "Limited Collectors' Edition" with upgraded components... heavier stock on the maps, deluxe book, whatever.

Don't mean to monopolize this tho; if someone else outbids me for the IP or license, so it goes...

Most of you do know how tenacious I can be in a bidding war.  :lol:

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:10 pm 
 

IMO, the more products that can be got to market targetted at the generic 1E systems players, the stronger the market becomes. I'd be inclined to back a general release product more heavily than a LTD Edition. A floorplan based product could also pull in sales from the 4E players. Sure they could adapt. Presume they don't need to be srved up everything on a plate nowadays?


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:07 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:IMO, the more products that can be got to market targetted at the generic 1E systems players, the stronger the market becomes. I'd be inclined to back a general release product more heavily than a LTD Edition. A floorplan based product could also pull in sales from the 4E players. Sure they could adapt. Presume they don't need to be srved up everything on a plate nowadays?


The 4th Edition market is crowded with floorplan publications, both in hardcopy and pdf form.

Paizo is also putting out tons of the same thing for Pathfinder.

Two considerations about Halls of the Mountain King:

1)  Some of the monsters depicted are closed content, reserved for WOTC use.  Permission would have to be obtained.

2)  A 1" x 1" grid system is now standard on floorplan publications.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:33 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:Some of the monsters depicted are closed content, reserved for WOTC use.  Permission would have to be obtained.
More than 'some', and the crux of the problem, imho. All else is soluble by other means.

Given the size of the work, a redrawing is not cost-effective.
But otoh, a parallel all-new project? Hmmmm...

Worth thinking about.

And of course the originals would become famed as Hyper-Rare and hideously expensive, heh heh heh

  

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Post Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:36 pm 
 

One ironic factor, then.....

Halls of the Mountain King would be perfectly mainstream today.  In fact, it wouldn't stand out all that much, except as an ambitious project.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:56 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:One ironic factor, then.....

Halls of the Mountain King would be perfectly mainstream today.  In fact, it wouldn't stand out all that much, except as an ambitious project.


Yeah, but it would be for an earlier edition, not that "other" one!  :)


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:49 am 
 

There must be another portion of Hall of the Mountain King that I don't know about.  It must have game stats.


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Post Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:35 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:There must be another portion of Hall of the Mountain King that I don't know about.  It must have game stats.

The text I have (a separate multipage and fairly detailed booklet for each of the 5 tubed mapsets) is pretty much statless.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:28 pm 
 

You'd mentioned a beholder. Is there an illustration of it, or just a mention? If there is only a mention, that is not too terrible to deal with; a "new version" can be written and called a beholder, as it is the depiction/trade dress (artistic representation and combination of abilities) stuff that is owned, and not the name... but, if there is a depiction of it, then that particular one would need to either be changed somewhat (to not be the same as a "normal beholder") or dropped. Sucks, but them's the breaks. I also hear, at least when I last contacted WotC that they were not interested in licensing their IP (though I bet if you threw enough money at them they'd listen.) Of course, I last asked them like 6 years ago... and they were very cordial (even gave me permission to do a bunch of stuff that then fell through.)


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:36 pm 
 

Many critters are precisely (and I mean precisely) shown with all the unique & distinctive features shown in MM1.

And yet, most (not all) are in a 'trophy room' that could be omitted or redone, hmmmm...

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:59 pm 
 

I am thrilled to see all of the interest in this "work of art", as the design & maps of this set are truly magnificent. I wanted to insert some images to show you all, but it appears that I have to upload these photos to a site that stores them for public viewing. Any suggestions for this would be appreciated.

As for the history, I had managed to locate Jay's ex-wife and she was kind enough to point me to Jay's current common law wife. I left a message and she called me back to say that Jay had passed a few years ago. I told her that I was terribly sorry to hear that and went on to explain the reason for my call. She told me that Jay was a brilliant man who had worked as an engineer, even having had a hand in the design of the lunar rover. Having access to the large printing & plotting devices at his work, he used them to create the maps he designed for the Halls of the Mountain King. Apparently, the project was supposed to be bigger than it is (description will follow), but he started with five (5) levels (A-E) and had about 100 (do not recall exactly) sets made, which he sold in the local area or gave to friends. Interestingly, he colored one set, which he gave to a close friend, who has not been in touch since his passing. It would be amazing to see these maps & illustrations in color :)

Over a period of several months, Jay's common law wife sent me the booklets, maps, & other material she had, basically everything she had kept, as well as a book that Jay had written, which was a good read. She was very interested to see his work come to fruition, so I began contacting potential developers, but upon recognizing the scope of the project, they all passed. Only JG was interested, as Bill Owen was very helpful in finding an economical solution to re-producing these large maps and he put me in touch with Bob Bledsaw, Jr. I was about to get the project started with them, when Bob had a family situation arise and had to pass on the project. So, I am back to square one, but armed with many new ideas and ways to develop this material, such as shrinking the maps to accomodate them more easily into a boxed set for the non-mini crowd and allowing the true diehard mini fans to order maps from a company that will reproduce them at will, so people can get what they want. In addition, any other sizing, folded or tubed, can be developed.

In relation to what as been mentioned in other threads, it is true that this "game" does not contain any monsters or stats. Basically, the Halls of the Mountain King (HMK) are an incredibly beautiful & highly detailed shell that needs to be fleshed out with a storyline and populated with "nasties". Here is what is stated in the first booklet - Introduction:
"The dungeon "Halls of the Mountain King" is a 25mm scale representation of an underground dwarven city carved from the upper levels of a mine complex. The dungeon is separated into 5 "levels" labeled A-E. Each individual level is packaged separately. Each package contains the room maps for that level, as well as a booklet of room descriptions for the maps.
Included with the level-A package are the two overall maps (1/10 scale) *aside - I have not seen these in the material I have* of the "Halls of the Mountain King" and this introduction to the dungeon is included with the room descriptions of Level A. The complete dungeon, as represented by the two overall maps, has a total of 59 maps (22" x 34") and contains 257 rooms. Amplified room descriptions to be included at the Game Master's discretion are underlined. Editorial instructions to the Game Master, descriptions, traps, etc., are in italics.
Level A is a dwarven manufacturing area for ore refining, metalworking, lapidary, carpentry, printing, etc. and has 9 maps displaying a total of 16 rooms. Levels B, C & D contain various rooms generic to any human habitation. Level B has 11 maps - 3 of which are to be used three times for a total of 86 rooms. Level C has 14 maps, 3 of which are to be used three times, for a total of 67 rooms. Level D had 12 maps, 2 of which are to be used 2 times, for a total of 88 rooms. Level E has a contiguous series of river caverns, a mining area and the dwarven treasury contained on 11 maps for a total of 19 rooms."

Basically, I want to see this material become available to all who would enjoy it and I know that Jay's family would like to see the same thing happen. If anyone, especially Frank (Ex-TSR), would like to contact me, please email me at: [email protected] and we can then discuss this more. My weeks are busy with work & taking care of my parents, so I am only available on the weekends or after 10pm EST. I hope with all my heart that with the efforts of those on this forum, we can get this project off the ground.

Thank you all,


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:08 pm 
 

Wow, PM-Knight, fantastic update to this old thread!!! I'm interested still.
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Post Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:13 pm 
 

Thanks for posting this. I hope this comes to fruition, and count me in as interested, too.

  
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